A Dub in a culchie world he may be, but Mr Paul O'Callaghan says that in his 30 years with FBD (Farmers Business Development) Holdings, the matter has never been discussed.
"I was good; they needed me," says the FBD chief executive. "I enjoy it. I suppose when I came here in '71, I was an ambitious accountant. I had worked for Americans for eight years after qualifying (Colgate and WR Grace). I came here saying I would give them two years."
As we speak, drills are making the most dreadful noise overhead, working on the 30,000 square foot extension to the group's headquarters in Bluebell in Dublin. "This has been the worst day yet," he says, ignoring the drills. "And they're likely to be finished in August instead of October".
The expansion is to accommodate the bulk of the 675 people who work for the farmer-controlled insurance and leisure group in Ireland - and the number is still expanding. Some 300 are employed in Spain.
FBD began as a co-operative insurance company with a share capital of £273,000 (€347,000) raised by farmers. The Belgian farmers' insurance company, now part of the KBC group, invested £70,000 and still owns 31 per cent of the group. In 1971 there were around 100 employees and profits in Mr O'Callaghan's first year were £2,000. This week, FBD reported pre-tax profits of €28 million and will pay dividends totalling £5.9 million this year.
In 1988, the group went public, but Mr O'Callaghan says that while this did not add significantly to the business account, it did create a greater awareness of FBD in the business community. Today, only 52 per cent is farmer business and 48 per cent in rural towns, with a small portion in Dublin city.
"We still grow our farmer account, but at a rate of 1.2 per cent per annum. We have 8 per cent of the total Irish market. We have a much bigger proportion of the personal lines - individual insurance. We don't have a substantial commercial account; we don't underwrite for large business as such. It's an area where there is huge potential at present, but the rates have been very low.
"Our motor business is about 58 per cent of the total . . . not just cars but tractors, trucks, combine harvesters. About 20 per cent is property and the other 20 per cent is either employers' or public liability."
The FBD insurance company has steadfastly remained independent at a time when other insurance companies in Ireland have opted for alliances with larger internationals. The shares are very tightly controlled, with FBD holding 40 per cent, KBC holding 23 per cent directly, and 8 per cent through the FBD Trust. The balance of the shares are on free float and are largely held by farmers "who do not deal in shares".
"We've spoken to many people but most people want to take us over. It's acquisition they want," he says simply. "We have 50 local offices around the country, which is probably the strongest insurance distribution so far in this country. We have highly-motivated, dedicated staff, are very close to our customers, much closer than any other company, where you go mainly through a broker who isn't, let's face it, as concerned, and they would all love to get their hands on our distribution."
But would a strategic alliance not bring about economies of scale?
"Our present overhead rate is 14 per cent of gross written premium, and that is the lowest in the market. Most of the takeovers or acquisitions bring about a reduction in staff numbers. That is how to achieve the pay-off. That is not very achievable in FBD. I also think staff motivation would suffer.
"Staff have a sense of belonging they don't have if they are run from London or Paris or further afield. And we have a very loyal customer base. A lot are shareholders in the business; there is a sense of ownership," he adds.
FBD has moved into the International Financial Services Centre with a number of captive reinsurance companies and provides asset financing for companies that find their service more tax-effective.
"We're always on the lookout for something, but so is everyone else down there. It's a difficult enough market, although the concept was great. Everyone is looking at trying to give the same services from there."
Other financial services offered by the group include a general brokerage, formed first to handle the larger farming cooperative accounts, and a life brokerage company.
As a population, does he consider us well-insured? "I think when FBD started, farmers weren't well insured. Pre-EU days, they didn't have a bob and probably only insured the bare necessities. But uninsured motorists - I only looked at that figure the other day - they have cost FBD £11.5 million over the last three years. That's our contribution to the Motor Insurers Bureau fund. It's £65 per policy."
Like other insurers, he complains about levels of compensation here, which are higher than in Britain or Europe. "Juries tend to make high awards because they feel it's an insurance company that's paying. At the end of the day, it's Joe Public who has to pay for it. In parts of the continent they have a book of quantum and they have set figures for standard insurance. Maybe we need something like that here. There is also a claims culture - solicitors advertising `no foal-no-fee' claims."
Not a lot of people know it, but FBD is a considerable property developer, both in Ireland and in Spain. The group was involved in the £80 million development in Guild Street in the IFSC, recently disposed of, and in the £15 million office extension on top of Connolly Station in Dublin.
It has a 50 per cent shareholding in the Tower Group, which runs a number of successful hotels, and its leisure business in Spain - the Sunset Beach Club, a 600-room aparthotel, and the exclusive La Cala resort, with 100 five-star bedrooms, two golf courses, a golf academy and a football pitch - showed very strong figures this year.
People who work for FBD say Mr O'Callaghan is the most accessible of bosses and he clearly rates his staff highly, constantly referring to their loyalty and commitment.
"We're investing a lot in staff training and development. We encourage them to do extra courses and pay for them. We've spent a lot on technology of late. Mind you, we don't want them all sitting looking at the screens because that is the way the others have gone."
Mr O'Callaghan and his wife Filema have six children, all working or at college. They are keen Dublin football supporters and he plays golf in Howth, close to his Sutton home. At 60, is it time to retire?
"I have no plans to go yet. Retiring is for old men," he says. But when he eventually clears the desk?
"You would have to have some other interest - I don't quite know what as yet. FBD has been very much full-time. I don't really like directorships, maybe something of a voluntary nature, contributing something. I wouldn't mind how demanding it was if I had the energy."
