Martin Cullen favours a more 'connected' transport system, writes Emmet Oliver

Brian Cowen once famously described the Department of Health as "Angola" because of the heavy presence of political minefields at Hawkins House.

Well if the analogy is true, the Department of Transport must also resemble a war-torn African state because there is certainly no shortage of conflict.

The sight of disaffected taxi widows, or CIÉ workers, or Aer Rianta staff stomping around outside the Kildare Street department was a common sight during the ministry of Séamus Brennan.

Martin Cullen, his successor, likes to present a softer, more emollient image. His approach, he makes clear, is to be "pragmatic" about the various issues that Séamus Brennan found himself embroiled in.

Despite favouring a more consensual approach, Cullen is also finding life in the department frustrating - at least in terms of the fragmented landscape he faces when trying to make decisions. Put simply, the Department of Transport is in danger of becoming quango land.

Cullen has found himself frustrated at the sheer number of bodies which have an input into transport policy, particularly in Dublin. While reluctant to use a phrase like "empire building", he believes there are a lot of different bodies and organisations currently operating not necessarily in tandem. So change is afoot and a new souped-up transport body, à la London Transport, for Dublin appears to be on the way, he says.

"I believe if you are going to get a successful public transport system for Dublin, it has to be branded and managed like London Transport. So in other words all of them have to be 'Dublin Transport' whether it's Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, Metro, Luas, Dart. Now they can retain their individual characteristics. But it's all branded in London, even the buses have the logo, the circle and the bar. But you wouldn't go to London and think they're all disjointed. You'd actually go to London and feel this is all connected up".

Cullen believes more than just new branding is needed.

"So my question then to myself is, and I've been thinking about this over the last few weeks: do we have the structures now for the next 10 to 20 years to deliver all this? I am very interested in a high-powered executive body."

He says there is a "whole plethora" of bodies out there shaping transport policy in the capital.

"I think we need a very strong overall transport body in situ. It's a very specific high powered, really authoritative, transport body. They would plan, they would really get involved in managing the entire market. Okay. you set policy from a Government perspective, but in terms of delivery and all of that they will manage it," he says.

Also, despite being portrayed as a group of ditherers, he believes the Government has managed to chart a decent future for Aer Lingus.

He says he will be appointing consultants to execute the sale within weeks and the event itself should happen in 2006. "I don't see any reason why we can't get to the market next year. But I don't dictate that."

While happy to leave day-to-day management of the airline to incoming chief executive Dermot Mannion, he has strong views on where Aer Lingus should be going and Ryanair II is unlikely.

"I don't want a race to the bottom. It's not about, in my view, you know the €5 or €10 ticket. I think Aer Lingus has to be very cost efficient to compete, but it doesn't necessarily have to become an absolute carbon copy of Ryanair. I think there is another market out there," he says.

Whether the incoming Mannion-led management will agree with this or not remains to be seen, but Cullen is very specific about what Aer Lingus should be doing over the next decade - long haul and more long haul.

"I believe that long haul is where the big profit is for Aer Lingus in the future. I think 22 destinations are anxious to see an Aer Lingus service. They won't go to them all, they're probably not all viable, but surely at least a doubling of the destinations into the States is very much achievable. If you look at the traffic now out of Ireland through London and beyond the numbers would tell you that direct flights from Ireland to all of these destinations are now viable," he states.

"There are in excess of 10,000 students per annum going out to Australia from Ireland every year. So the traffic is now there. I know a big competitor airline, which does fly long haul, did an analysis of Ireland and it showed the market was now sustainable. Before you would have said, 'look there's not a sustainable market out of Ireland on its own', so you have to go through London to fill up your planes. But now its quiet clear you don't have to do that," he adds.

Asked about his main concerns in the whole sales process, he says there are three areas of concern: the brand, the Heathrow slots and the transatlantic business.

They must be protected in any transaction. He acknowledges that adding conditions could mean a smaller valuation for the airline. But he is sanguine about that.

"People are saying you are discounting the company. Well what's wrong with that. That's a business judgement. Businesses do this every week. You balance, you want to get best and top value for the company, but you balance that with making sure that strategic principles are embraced by new shareholders".

How much will the Government retain and what happens when subsequent fund raisings arise, possibly for new short-haul aircraft. Surely the Government's golden share of 25 per cent will be watered down then? Cullen says not if the Government agrees to pony up more cash.

"It would certainly be my view, and certainly a strongly held position in Fianna Fáil and there is no doubt about that, we would not be diminishing below the 25 per cent".

Asked would more money be provided, he says. "We'd have to do that. If it's a strategic asset and a flag carrier for the Ireland brand in a wider sense, and not just an airline, there is a good reason for doing that," he says.

He strenuously denies he has shied away from the thorny issues of giving more public bus routes to private operators and says unions may be open to a compromise.

"I've met the unions, they accept market opening. There is different ways of doing it, so maybe we'll see what happens with a regulator. But there is a room to expand the bus market in Dublin." I put it to him that since Séamus Brennan left the Department there has been virtually no progress on this contentious issue.

"No, because I haven't said much publicly. But you can take it from me that we have been having good discussions on it."

He says a regulator is needed to implement a new structure in the bus market. "Clearly you need a structure like a regulator to deliver it. I don't think the Department issuing licences in future is the way to do it. You need an independent body to do it."

He appears relatively unfazed by the threat of legal actions following the recent decision to get the Dublin Airport Authority to build new terminal facilities at Dubbin Airport and he is steadfastly opposed to giving access to the McEvaddy brothers to the runway at Dublin Airport

"I don't think you can take in any element to a very important strategic asset belonging to the State and say 'hey lads whatever you're having yourself'. It just doesn't work like that. No country would operate on that basis. You need a structure," he says.

He gives a diplomatic answer to the question of where the debts of Cork Airport are going to end up, but hints that Dublin cannot be swamped by them.

"It will only work once you have all three airports set up on a good financial/commercial basis. You cannot just over burden Dublin with debt and cripple its prospects, so that's not going to work. Or vice versa. So it's complex in terms of working out the arrangements."

He says a decision will only be made when the business plans for all three airports are submitted. He expects them within the "next couple of months".

He doesn't mind people criticising the recently announced aviation package and is just happy there a decision there at all. "It frustrates me that it went on forever. Aviation may be going on forever, but in seven months I got it to a point where it never went before," he states firmly.

As for NTR's ownership of the West Link toll bridge, Cullen thinks it unlikely the Government will buy out the contract.

"What I'm not going to do is take several hundred million to do it. So I'm not going to take that out, because you have to drop projects to do that."

Factfile

Name: Martin Cullen.

Title: Minister for Transport.

Born: Waterford, 1954.

Education: Waterpark College, Waterford; Waterford Regional Technical College.

Hobbies: Supporting Waterford hurling, music, including jazz, classical and soul. His most recent CD purchases include music by Ray Charles, Faith Hill and Coldplay. He is also a major film fan.

Career: Appointed Minister for Transport on September 29th, 2004; former minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, from June 2002 to September 2004. Former Minister of State at the Department of Finance, with special responsibility for the Office of Public Works, 1997-2002.

Why he is in the news: Expects to appoint consultants to execute the sale of Aer Lingus within weeks. He is also expected to announce a new 10-year transport plan shortly.