A 42-year veteran of the Irish naval service who previously described some senior officers as acting like they’re in the “British Raj” says it is clear from speaking to Defence Forces members this week that an “elitist” mindset remains for many senior military figures.
“It originated a long time ago, and it is demeaning,” said Ken Holland, speaking at the annual conference of the Permanent Defence Forces Other Ranks Representative Association (PDForra).
“There’s an elitism there among some. And you don’t make any friends by saying it or sticking your head above the parapet,” said Mr Holland.
He said many members were expected to wait hand on foot like servants for senior officers in aristocratic fashion, cleaning officers’ toilets and cabins and providing them with silver service at mealtimes.
Was it for this craven display that London endured the Blitz?
John Collison of Stripe: ‘I am baffled by companies doing an about-face on social initiatives’
How Dr Mike Ryan became a victim of ‘desperate’ funding crisis in WHO
Even Claire Byrne is alarmed by what she hears about life for Irish teenagers
It was a particular issue for senior officers who had trained in the UK, according to Mr Holland, as they had “learned some of their ways”.
“Those [officers], they do demean, and I saw it myself. People felt devalued. People just felt like there was a divide there, and it was there,” he said.
Members in attendance at the conference appeared to agree, with a motion passed seeking to “cease the practice of our members catering to the needs of commissioned officers during meal times to reflect a modern Defence Forces”.
Introducing the motion – the third such one in the last five years – a delegate told of the rigorous training that one must go through as a member of the Defence Forces: “Why is it that these people, trained in logistics from the beginning of their careers, end up spending most of their time cleaning private cabins and toilets of commissioned officers, running around the ship to figure out their meal preferences and setting up the officers’ mess table to a standard that could rival any hotel?”
The delegate spoke of a buzzer next to the officers’ dining table that they could press to summon someone for their every whim during mealtimes.
“This, to me, is like calling someone like a dog,” the delegate said. “It’s not often used, to my knowledge. But, in my opinion, the fact that it exists is a disgrace.
“I’ve heard many speeches up here today about the Defence Forces moving into a modern Defence Forces. How can we call it a modern Defence Forces, or even a modern navy, when this archaic behaviour still exists?”
When the speaker concluded, attendees erupted in loud applause.
Another member at the conference said they had experienced demeaning demands from officers to heat their butter so it could be spread, along with shining their cutlery and fetching napkins.
Mr Holland, who retired three years ago, said it was clear from members’ continued frustration that not much had changed in terms of affording them the dignity they deserve.
He said the applause received by speakers on the issue “just goes to show that those same people are having those same issues now”, he told The Irish Times. “I’m disappointed that in 2025 these practices are still ongoing”.
A spokesperson for the Defence Forces said it did not condone any demeaning behaviour by personnel in the execution of their duties.
“We encourage any issues of this nature to be brought to the interim grievance manager, the new independent complaints process, for resolution by an external panel of HR professionals.”
The spokesperson added the duties of logistics staff on-board naval ships include “general cleanliness of tableware and cutlery as well as the cabin and ablutions, as per the captain’s standing orders”.
“A ship at sea is the epitome of teamwork in a harsh and challenging environment. The Defence Forces values the service of all of its personnel no matter how they serve the State,” the spokesperson said.
Along with the motion to stop personnel catering to senior officers at mealtimes, just under 70 other motions, primarily related to pay and benefits, were passed by delegates.
These, according to outgoing PDForra president Mark Keane, represent the multipronged approach the body is taking to tackle corrosive retention issues, as the private sector poaches crucial personnel from their ranks.
“We have recruitment measures, we now want retention measures,” he said before the closure of the three-day conference at the Gleneagle Hotel in Killarney, Co Kerry, on Thursday.
“Whether it’s an independent pay review for highly skilled personnel, whether it’s the duty payments announced in a review that was contained in the Fine Gael manifesto but never made it into the programme for government.”
