UCD president Dr Hugh Brady is one of the most powerful figures in Irish education. Interviewed this week, he talks about his constant (and controversial) quest for excellence
There is a common depiction of you as the Michael O’Leary of education, a tough, demanding figure who will brook no compromise. How do you respond?
I am not afraid to call a spade a spade and take somebody on, but if there is a legitimate and constructive criticism I welcome it.
I think I am tough, but actually I do compromise. The great thing about this place [UCD] is that it is full of smart people and I am open to persuasion on any issue.
What I don’t like is game playing or self-serving stuff ... So as long as somebody has the best interest of the students and the institution at heart, I don’t mind. Criticism doesn’t phase me.
When I set out my stall in the first few years, I was very encouraged when not just young academics but senior people also felt we needed to be more vocal about the quest for excellence.
You strike me as an unusual public figure in Ireland in the sense that you don’t necessarily want to be loved.
No. I think it is more important that you are respected. UCD is a very diverse and complex institution; we are endeavouring to move it forward with less resources than our international competitors. You have got to able to bring the majority of the troops with you; even troops who have some worry at times about what it means for them. So I think the respect thing is key.
DO WORLD RANKINGS COUNT?
UCD is – for the first time – inside the world top 100 in the latest world ranking, up from 221 in 2005. But is there too much made of these rankings?
Rankings can never capture the full contribution of this university. The standard line is they don’t matter – but they do.
International students and international staff look at rankings. When I was in China last week, they knew exactly where we are and what we are good at. World rankings are still consistently cited as one of the top 10 reasons why multi-nationals choose where they are going to locate.
UCD – A TOP HEAVY BUREAUCRACY?
You have put great stress on value for money and efficiency. But you have also created what critics see as a top-heavy bureaucracy with more than a dozen vice-presidents including college principals, all handsomely paid.
We had a huge administrative head count, but we have scaled it back significantly. Our managerial head count is less now than it was when I started. We had 11 faculties and more than 85 departments – all of which had a head of department. Today we have brought it down to the five colleges and 34 schools. We have unashamedly brought in some real professionals in areas such as human resources. I make no apologies on that front.
PRESIDENTS, VICE-PRESIDENTS – AND THEIR PAY
How about the criticism of your own pay? (Dr Brady earns €226,000 per year.) Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe has called on university presidents to shoulder some of the pain and take a pay cut. You seem reluctant to respond.
As my good friend Ferdinand von Prondzynski [president of DCU] said: ‘he has never asked me’.
Am I expecting to take a further pay cut because we have obviously been affected by the levy – absolutely yes and I am willing to do so, absolutely yes. But only in the context of the forthcoming review of higher-level pay. That is the right way to do these things.
The reality is that many of our presidents could be earning twice as much in the private sector. The key issue is this. All universities need to recruit the best and the brightest from an international field. If we want the best, we have to pay the equivalent salaries to presidents at leading international universities.
So you have no apologies to offer to those outraged to read that one of your vice-presidents (Prof Des Fitzgerald) earned €409,000 in 2008?
No, because Des was getting more money in his previous job in the College of Surgeons. And I think he has done a spectacular job. Under his leadership, we have more than tripled research income. He is an absolute magician and it is really important that guys like him are kept within this country and within the university sector.
UNIVERSITY FEES AND THE FUNDING CRISIS
Plans to introduce a new student loan scheme next September have been abandoned in the revised Programme for Government. The teacher unions were very active in lobbying Fianna Fáil and Green Party Ministers. But there was no lobby by the university presidents.
I think it is probably fair to say that universities may have thought it was a done deal, that a deferred loan system was imminent.
It was a real surprise to us, given everything that had gone before, when the decision was made to keep fees off the table. Now, we are left with serious financial stresses.
We need to see the funding crisis in the wider perspective. Despite major cutbacks over the past year, the university sector has taken in undergraduates in record numbers and expanded our postgraduate programme.
We have responded to the various Government calls to take people off unemployment, we have kept research going. So the universities have absorbed cuts and delivered more – a remarkable achievement.
But the quality of the student experience is now being compromised. Library opening hours are being curtailed. Student supports are being cut. The staff-student ratio is undoubtedly going to suffer.
There are also worrying signs that very good people who have been brought into our institutions in the past five years are now watching with some nervousness and scepticism and unless we manage to maintain momentum, they will be gone.
It is clear to us that people are watching and waiting and wondering what is going to happen. Not just the international stars, the Irish stars, it is a highly mobile talent, as you well know. And that’s the game you play. It is a local budget, but an international game. That’s the difficulty.
The Government says world-class universities are key to economic revival, but when under pressure from the Green Party it was again ready to abandon plans for a new funding mechanism. Why do universities seem so powerless in the face of these events?
I think the universities always suffered to a degree because they don’t have local political champions, whereas schools and perhaps to a lesser extent, institutes of technology do and that is just the nature of the political process. So when push comes to shove, we repeatedly seem to be ones that lose out.
Collectively we are doing everything that we can to keep a high quality show on the road, but it is getting extraordinarily difficult and if it continues in the current direction ... there is no doubt that quality is definitely going to be compromised in a very major way.
What about the view – articulated by some that the Department of Education is essentially about schools and teachers with little appreciation of the third-level sector. A case has been made for new structures – perhaps universities coming under the aegis of the Department of Enterprise?
That criticism of the Department is probably a little unfair.
I think the Department and the Higher Education Authority have been working very closely with us to represent the case for higher education. But the McCarthy Report challenged all of us to think radically and to examine the existing way that we do our business. So I think everything has got to be on the table in terms of structures, both within the university sector and its relationship with the State.
INNOVATION ALLIANCE – MERGING RESEARCH ACTIVITY IN UCD AND TRINITY
There is some confusion about the genesis of Innovation Alliance. Who was the driving force?
People tend to forget that UCD and Trinity had a long history of co-operation and alliance through the PRTLI – the Programme for Research in Third Level Institutions. All of us in research could appreciate the need for scale, concentration of technologies.
What happened was that the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, challenged us in the Smart Economy document.We assembled a joint team and we worked extraordinarily hard on it.
The alliance was announced with a great hoopla in March. What has been happening since?
I’d say there hasn’t been a day since when you haven’t had teams of UCD and Trinity academics being reviewed together by the various PRTLI site visit teams.
We have also been looking at best practice in Stanford, MIT, Germany, visiting different centres. We have had people coming over from those institutions and advising us.
The second thing that got significant momentum was interacting with the Irish Technology Leadership Group, a group of Irish or Irish-American entrepreneurs. They are establishing an Irish technology centre in Silicon Valley where your best start-ups or your best entrepreneurs can go and interact with the brightest and the best of Silicon Valley.
In his submission to the National Strategy on Higher Education, the TCD economist Seán Barrett said the alliance was very good news for UCD, but not necessarily for TCD. Your response?
This isn’t about local politics. Ireland is in a dark place economically. The alliance doesn’t compromise the history, heritage or the differing traditions of the institutions.
It is saying in the research areas that there is an obligation on both universities to be a catalyst for national regeneration.
Hugh Brady: a brief history
Hugh Brady is the most divisive – and arguably the most influential – figure in higher education. To his admirers, he is the man who has transformed UCD, since his appointment in 2003. The one time “sleeping giant” of the university sector is leaner and fitter – it stands proudly for the first time inside the world’s top 100 universities.
Brady’s critics accuse him of sapping the morale of academics, destroying the collegiate culture of UCD and running a “pro-business” agenda – one with little time for arts and humanities.
Brady, who is 49, is a former associate professor of medicine at Harvard. He has also been head of the department of medicine at UCD and co-founder of the Conway Institute of Biomolecular and Biomedical Research.
His “short” CV ranges across five A4 pages. He has published more than 150 research papers.
On his appointment, he said: “I want to raise the ambition level here (at UCD) ... There will be bumps on the road. But this is not a popularity contest.”
Brady implemented a major restructuring of UCD’s academic structures. Twenty-two committees which reported to the Governing Authority were abolished. New selection procedures were introduced. A new management team was put in place.
His reforms served as a template for a wave of rationalisation across higher education in the past six years.
Three years ago, Brady was accused of poaching top-class academics from other universities. He offered no apologies for attempting to bring the best and the brightest to UCD.
Last March, UCD and TCD unveiled a new Innovation Alliance, merging their research areas. The merger was trumpeted at a crowded press conference hosted by the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen.
The alliance – announced after months of secret discussions – was regarded as a something of a coup for UCD, which has, until recently, trailed well behind Trinity in world rankings.
It was also viewed with some unease by other university presidents who fear their research work may now be marginalised. Some also complained they had been “kept in the dark” about a key development in higher education.
The President’s Thoughts On ...
JOB CUTS AT UCD
“What we have said is if there are any job cuts, we would like those to be voluntary. So my goal is that everybody who wants to stay in this institution, stays in the institution.’’
PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT IN UNIVERSITIES
“It is very difficult to dismiss people. You dont enter the field of academia for money, but having said that, you should have some bandwidth and we don’t have any. Our best professor gets paid the exact same as our worst professor – neither of whom I will name!’’
DUMBING DOWN AT SECOND-LEVEL
“Yes, there is a problem. I think both the junior and the senior cycle need to be looked at. We all have concerns about the level of proficiency in mathematics and science. Given where our future lies, it is absolutely essential that we address those.
“But the positive thing is that the students are probably more confident and ambitious than ever.’’
THE FORTHCOMING NATIONAL STRATEGY ON HIGHER EDUCATION
“They must address the funding issue; otherwise the report would have no credibility. It is the elephant in the room.
“I would hope that they would deregulate the universities to an extent. You can’t on the one hand regulate us very heavily but not allow us raise income, to have no flexibility in terms of pay. If you were running a company, it’s a crazy situation. You are actually constrained in terms of your income generation and how you spend it.’’
THE CRITICISM THAT NON-SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES HAVE BEEN MARGINALISED AT UCD
“I would dispute that completely. I think we have put as much work into the arts, social sciences, business and law domain as we have into the scientific domains.’’
