The Taoiseach, Mr Ahern, said the Government, rather than the religious orders, wanted the agreement to compensate those abused in industrial schools. He added that the then minister for education, Dr Woods, had concluded the deal with the authority of the government.
Strongly defending the deal, Mr Ahern said the religious congregations were quite happy to go "case by case" into the courts. "It was the Government which was not." The system had been made easy so those abused could get their money, he added. "I make no apology for anything the last government, or this Government, did to help these people." Mr Ahern said that the then attorney general, Mr Michael McDowell, and his office, were involved throughout the entire period and all of the issues relating to indemnity for the religious orders came fully in front of the government. "The then minister for education, Dr Michael Woods, dealt with the issues on the authority of the government." Mr Ahern added that in most of the discussions other Departments were involved. When Dr Woods and his officials dealt with the meetings, "they did not need anybody holding their hand".
The Taoiseach was speaking during heated and noisy exchanges with the Labour leader, Mr Rabbitte, and other Labour TDs. During the exchanges, Mr Rabbitte challenged Mr Ahern to publish all the documentation on the issue, adding that he did not believe Mr McDowell was involved. Mr McDowell, who is now Minister for Justice, was sitting on the Government benches at the time.
Mr Ahern insisted that the records would show, beyond all doubt, that everything was dealt with properly. He rejected the "bogus claim" that the agreement was a rushed or secret deal pushed through in the last days of the previous government.
"Nothing could be further from the truth. The negotiations with CORI, and the extent of the contribution, began at the end of 2000. The House and the public were kept well abreast of developments." He said that no exact scientific formula had been used in reaching a figure for the contribution from the congregations. "The State was looking for a voluntary contribution and could not compel the congregations to pay. The State did not want to put such a burden on the congregations which would put them out of business." The Department of Finance, based on the figures available at the time, said payment should have been on a 50/50 basis.
Mr Rabbitte asked a series of detailed questions on the issue, adding that he wondered how the Taoiseach could "justify leaving the Irish taxpayer with unlimited exposure as a result of a secret deal which never came before the House and in respect of which he refused to answer questions last week". Insisting he had answered questions on the matter, Mr Ahern said he had not discussed the matter with the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Desmond Connell, or any other religious person. Addressing Mr Rabbitte, he said: "I was at none of the discussions whatsoever, contrary to the impression you gave on the Pat Kenny radio programme this morning." The agreement with the religious congregations indemnified a number of religious orders that ran institutions. There was no agreement with the Catholic Church, said Mr Ahern.
The State had entrusted the institutions with functions which the State should have, perhaps, carried out itself.
"The agreement concluded between the State and the religious congregations was about ensuring that the religious made a meaningful contribution to the State's scheme."
