On the day Mr Ray Burke addressed the Dail about a payment to him, the Minister for Social Community and Family Affairs, Mr Dermot Ahern, rang Mr Joseph Murphy jnr wanting to know if he could provide Mr Burke with any ammunition in the form of payments to the Opposition parties, counsel for Mr Murphy claimed yesterday.
The Minister said he could not recall making any of the phone calls. Mr Garrett Cooney SC, for the Murphy Group, said Mr Murphy would tell the tribunal the Minister had asked for information about donations by JMSE to the Labour Party and Fine Gael. Mr Murphy had told the Minister that small payments had been made and they were usually given to buy off persistence.
Mr Cooney asked if the Minister had read Mr Burke's speech made on September 10th, 1997. The Minister had said that he had never heard of payments of £30,000, £20,000 or £10,000.
The Minister said he recalled Mr Burke's speech but did not recall the contents.
Mr Cooney said he had sworn positively that he had not learned about the payment until it surfaced at the tribunal. He put it to him that this was not credible, that a politician of his experience could not have failed to avert to what Mr Burke was saying on that occasion.
The Minister said that his understanding and recollection was that it came out there in the tribunal as to how the money was paid out. Mr Cooney put it to him that the phone call ended with an exchange between him and Mr Murphy to the effect that Fianna Fail wanted to avoid a tribunal at all costs.
The Minister said: "That's not the case, I can't remember ever saying that".