The former JMSE chairman, Mr James Gogarty was furious when the chief executive, Mr Liam Conroy, refused to support him in litigation over refurbishing Dublin's Gaiety Theatre.
In 1984, Mr Joseph Murphy jnr told the tribunal, a case was taken by sub-contractors because "some tradesmen came in and damaged the painting already done" in the theatre, which was owned by the Murphy family-linked Ashdale Trust.
Mr Murphy said Mr Gogarty "wanted the people charged who had damaged it". Mr Conroy did not support him. "Jim Gogarty told us that when he gave evidence the judge told him to leave the stand," Mr Murphy replied to a question about a visit Mr Gogarty and his wife had paid to his father's Guernsey home at Christmas 1987.
Was not this to relay his concern about the inadequate pricing of contracts in companies within the Murphys' Irish division? "Yes, but he was very upset when we lost the case, with costs."
Mr Gogarty, he confirmed, was concerned with "inadequate and improper" pricing procedures. "It was a case of one or two very good contracts clouding over very bad ones." The visit had lasted three or four days, he recalled.
Earlier his father's attention had been drawn to similar problems in English-based Murphy companies. A number of long-time employees had come to Mr Murphy jnr with their concerns. They had intimated that Mr Conroy had two or three yes-men close to him and that some contracts were not priced right and were losing money.
His father's initial reaction to this was, "Everything's OK". Then Mr Murphy found there were grounds for concern and visited all the main Murphy operations in London, Manchester, Sheffield and Kent, said Mr Murphy jnr.
"Your father had great expertise in pricing?" Ms Patricia Dillon SC asked. Mr Murphy jnr agreed. He was "intimately acquainted" with every aspect of the business when it came to costs. "Both Jim Gogarty and my father were of the opinion that jobs should be costed separately on a stand-alone basis." They did not like the idea of good jobs losing money at the expense of bad.
Investigation of the Irish operations - where his father did not have the same expertise - took place later under Mr Christopher Snelly and two accountants, Mr Peter Gardiner and Mr Brendan Devine, Mr Murphy jnr said.