The DIT'S director of academic affairs, Dr David Gillingham, denies that he is quitting his post because the DIT failed in its bid for university status. "I am leaving for positive reasons, not for negative ones," he explains. "Had DIT become a university, I might have stayed longer, since I would have been a senior figure in a university. When I received the offer of a senior position from a university, I accepted it."

Gillingham leaves to become pro-vice chancellor of the University of Coventry in January. English by birth, Gillingham describes himself as "one of these nomadic, multi-national types". He background is in marketing, and He came to the DIT just over three years ago from an international postgraduate business school in France - Groupe ESC Rennes. This followed a 14-year stint in Canada, where his final appointment was dean of the business school at the Laurentian University, northern Ontario. Gillingham admits to being concerned when the DIT was turned down for university status. "I was extremely disappointed about the way the report of the international group was treated by the HEA and the Minister," he says. "The review group made their recommendations, but they weren't acted upon. "I don't believe that the University of Limerick and DCU were subjected to the same subjective review as the DIT and they were transferred to the HEA with very little difficulty. "Academically it's very unsatisfactory that the DIT is not a university. We have no autonomy. We have to seek approval from the Department of Education and Science for staff appointments, property purchase and the running of courses." The tone of the HEA's report is to preserve the binary system and prevent a group of institutions becoming universities, he says. "This is not good for Irish education. I am opposed to the binary system, because it's an artificial line through the system. My experience is that a diverse system best meets the educational needs of a country.

"The highest rate of participation in third level is in the US, where they don't have a binary system. Because they have a large group of institutions serving different needs in society, they have very high participation rates." There is no evidence that binary systems are good, he argues. "Most of the criticism comes from Britain, where people say how terrible it was to turn polytechnics into universities. What's terrible about it? Where's the evidence? Most universities in Britain are doing a good job. Would anybody say that the University of Ulster shouldn't be a university?

"There's no evidence that they don't do a good job. They educate a lot of people. They are doing different jobs. Some are more research-oriented, some are teaching-oriented, while others provide more access to disadvantaged groups."

People worry that by giving institutions university status, you encourage academic drift and that colleges drop their vocational programmes. "It depends on government policy," he says. "If you're paid to run courses then you will do so." Craft education (apprenticeships) was only dropped by British colleges because it was uneconomic for them to continue, he says. The DIT, meanwhile, is only a partner in craft education. FAS and the Department of Education and Science are the others.

"As long as there is a reason for us to be working in this area we will do so," Gillingham says.

The DIT does have academic control of its sub-degree programmes, however. "The issue is not whether we would drop them, the issue is: what's happening in the market place?"

YOU CAN'T FORCE people to do courses they don't want to do, Gillingham asserts. In the IT sector, he says, 74 per cent of certificate students go on to higher education. More than half of diploma holders also go on to higher education. "You have to draw the conclusion that the certificate is not regarded as a qualification in its own right. "Students know what they want - they want degrees. Students are dropping certificates and diplomas. Our intake of 18-year-olds has peaked this year. It's not a problem yet, but it will be."

A number of certificate and diploma courses are in trouble because of lack of student uptake, he says. "If we are sensible, we will drop them and offer something else. But if we decide to drop certificate programmes, the Department will get anxious and say: `You can't. It's against national policy.' "But the policy is wrong. You can't change the way the market is going." Gillingham describes the failure to include the universities in the qualifications framework that is to be set up under the terms of the Qualifications Act, as "unforgivable". Transferability is a primary reason for the introduction of the Act. "Transferability between other institutions and the universities is the biggest problem, yet the universities are only connected by a dotted line."