Full text of interview by Galway Bay FM presenter Keith Finnegan (KF) and Bishop Martin Drennan (BD) on Thursday February 18th, 2010
KF: Thanks for joining us today. Now it's been a fairly difficult number of months for you - you've stood your ground, you've been to Rome. Talk to me about your visit to Rome by the way. All the bishops were in attendance. How did that go?
BD: I came away very buoyant, I must say, at the end of it We had meetings that lasted a day and a half, beginning Monday morning. The Pope joined us for all day Monday, that's from about 9.15 to about one o'clock with a short break in the middle and in the evening session from about 4 o'clock until about 7.30, so he joined us all day Monday and part of Tuesday when he had to go away for another appointment.
KF: When you say all day with you..he spent the day with you?
BD: He spent the whole day with us, yes
KF: What time of man is the Pope..was this your first time meeting him?
BD: No I met him three years ago when we had what we called the Ad Lim (something) visit, when every bishop reports on the state of his diocese and individually then for about 20 minutes. He speaks good English, is an excellent listener, a gentle person, very perceptive and a very incisive mind and an ability to sum up something in two or three points succinctly..brilliant.
KF: So he's a good listener then
BD: Excellent listener.
KF And in relation then to your meeting with him and looking at the content of that meeting.. I mean, spending Monday and a half day Tuesday.. did you get through a lot?
BD: We began I suppose by each person giving a short summary of how the Ryan and Murphy reports had affected them, in some cases personally, in some cases their own ministries, in some cases their own work in general, so there's a sharing.all the others were well prepared, we had texts prepared..
KF: Was he well briefed prior to your arrival?
BD: He was
KF: And was he award that you were the only bishop that had been named in the Murphy report that hadn't tendered resignation or did he know you?
BD: I don't know if he did.. I mean we.. it just so happened that he cane into the room I was seated at the door and I was the very first person he met.
KF: Could there have been a message in that? So you were the first inside but he didn't know and did you get a chance to articulate to him that people had called for your resignation and the fact that you had decided to stay on because you felt you had done nothing wrong?
BD: No, there was no individual meeting with him . . .it was only in a group session, so there was no question of that.
KF: So you don't think he knew you as you were in the room
BD: I would be very surprised if he did, basically.. there's no way he could have known
KF: And for the people of the diocese then, how did the day pan out for you then, Monday and Tuesday
BD: Well the main thing was for us to articulate was how we saw the situation in Ireland, what had happened, how we felt about it, what we saw maybe possible ways forward, and then he had four senior Vatican officials with him and they listened to what we had to say. They all said in brief before we came (*) and then they commented back on some of the things we had said.
KF: And did those senior.. and I'm going back to this because it seems to be that people are dwelling on it.. you've made the decision and you've told us you are not resigning and that's it. But did any of those senior officials within the Vatican when you were meeting with them or the Pope's representatives ask you for the good of the church to step down or did you stand your ground and stay as strong as you've been staying?
BD: No, no, I was never asked to resign. But I certainly got tacit support, it was fairly clear.. tacit support for what I am doing. I think the general impression among the bishops and a lot of people I know is that division, em, that resignations haven't really helped. They've caused divisions rather than unity, and that it is important for the people of Galway now to know that I'm going to stay with the difficult time, the difficult task and I'm not going to run away from it because things are difficult. They can depend on me to stay with it.
KF: In relation to..and I'm coming back to that in a minute.. in relation to your relationship with the other bishops. Did you get a chance to have a chat and did you get a chance to have a chat with Diarmuid Martin and with other bishops indeed that may not have been as supportive of you as you would have thought they should have been.
BD: I, obviously, we had a lot of time amongst ourselves and I didn't .I did meet Archbishop Martin, yes.. I think, from what I heard, I think he's satisfied now that I have taken responsibility for my actions. I responded to his letter and he did mention that ..not on this occasion in Rome, but on other occasions, that he felt I had taken responsibility for my actions so I think I'm satisfied on that score, yes.
KF: And is he prepared to say "Ok, Martin Drennan, the gloves are off, get on with your ministry", even though it's not his role to tell you to get on with your ministry, is it?
BD: It's not, no, n fact I know he's no direct responsibility for me. My direct responsibility is to the Archbishop of Tuam, the Papal Nuncio and then the congregation in Rome.
KF: And then Cardinal Brady as well
BD: Yes.
KF: So you don't need his permission then, still it would be nice if you could all get on together and move forward.
BD: Well, it would be actually inappropriate for him to be writing to me about my behaviour at this stage. That would be inappropriate diplomatically, it would.
KF: And did you get a chance subtly and discreetly as only you can do to say that to him or did you just not bother?
BD: Oh I've said that to him, yes
KF: You have said that to him
BD: Indeed, I have, yes, and I don't think he's going to go public. I think at this stage it would be difficult for him and I respect his difficulties in that area too. He has his own pressures.
KF: The other bishops, indeed, then, going to those ..and I know we will be joined by Bishop John Kirby shortly.. but the other bishops, were they supportive of you when you were in Rome?
BD: Very supportive and have been all the way through
KF: And privately, would they have been texting you or would they have been in contact with you?
BD: I would have been in contact with everyone of them
KF: And they would be supportive of you?
BD: Yes
KF: Do you get great strength from that type of support because I've seen people walking up to you in the cathedral during the Novena or outside..do you get great strength from that and do you feel then that that rubberstamps the fact that you have made the right decision to stay on?
BD: Well I suppose the effect of the visit to Rome as well gives you more confidence to face your own problems. You know that people are with you and are supporting you. The most enjoyable card was from one of the auxiliary bishops who said if you survive this I'll make you the patron saint of auxiliary bishops.
KF: Coming back to Galway, and to the victims. The victims feel that they should have a voice as well and that the Pope should apologise to them. What's your reaction, having been to Rome, spoken about the situation, and what would you say to the victims?
BD: Well, I'd say I went to Rome like the other bishops and uppermost in my mind was what can we do here to bring healing to the victims, to bring this to a closure, to respect the injustices that have been done to them and that is still uppermost in my dealing with all of this issue.
KF: How do you deal with it..how do you do that?
BD: I've met some victims here in Galway, I've talked to them, we've talked about possible ways of supporting them in a new situation. They need..some of them had poor social skills, some of them had poor educational training, we are looking at ways that we can provide something for them to help them get their lives back on track.
KF: So you've met with some victims in Galway with a view to that
BD: The listening process is terribly important as well, to hear their stories and to understand the injustices that have been done and to prevent any further damage being done.
KF: Do you believe there is going to be a point, Bishop Martin Drennan, where you draw a line in the sand and you have supported the victims but that you get on with the work of the diocese?
BD: That's true, I suppose.
KF: But when do you draw that line?
BD: I think a bit of listening needs to be done first. I mean what the victims are hoping for from Rome didn't happen and there's been a lot of comment in the public media about that. Some of the expectations simply can't be met. The kind of financial expectations are way beyond the region of..
KF: But then, sorry I don't mean to delay you on this point, but then do you believe that they were given false hope by ..when ye went to Rome it was expected that you were to hand in a letter, I don't mean you physically, but you as a group of bishops were to hand in a letter looking for a large compensation pot that could be given out and for the support. Do you feel that the victims feel let down by that?
BD: I do. . . if you raise expectations, inevitably you are going to cause frustration and I don't think it's helpful to raise expectations too high. There's only so much we can do and by and large most people..I've had contact with victims who haven't gone public at all and don't want to go public and feel all this trauma is causing them enormous stress, and they say to me "Lookit.."
KF: It's bringing back the grief that they have maybe put out of their mind?
BD: Yes, they had moved on and they say "look, could we move on and live normal lives, we've been through this, we left it behind us by and large" and they want to move on. So there comes to a point when you have to say "yes, we've got to try and move on as best we can".
KF: So would you be saying then to the victims and the victims ' representatives that now is the time to draw that line in the sand?
BD: It's hard to get the timing right ,you know. There's some people that have been so badly damaged they won't fully recover ever and that's part of life, you have to live with that.
KF: Can I ask you, just going back to the Pope and I'm flitting back and forth..the text lines are open by the way.the reaction of the Pope to the Murphy report and your presence there..how important do you believe that that was?
BD: Well, the first thing was to do was to accept this did happen, it's appalling.
KF: Yes, I mean, was it PR exercise by the Pope to have you present? Or was there positive work done?
BD: Very positive work done. It was not a PR exercise by no means, he listened very seriously, responded to some of the points, was well briefed, his own officials were well briefed and they came to try and help us to get through what is a crisis, help us try and understand some of the causes of it, to stay with it in patience and then try and work away towards bringing about healing and closure.
KF: So they are behind ye.
BD: I feel very confident after two days in the Vatican - we all did - that we are really being supported in this to go back with some confidence to take up the task that lies before us
KF: Just from the social point of view, you were there Monday and Tuesday and you stayed within the Vatican itself..was there any social outlet for you to communicate off the record, to take the time to have a lighter moment..
BD: Not really because the time we had off we had to come together to discuss how we were going to respond to this, where we were going ..the press briefing for example, we saw an early draft of the Popel's letter that is going to come to Ireland in a probably a few weeks time..we nearly drafted that.. he'll probably change it drastically, but we needed to look over that to see if we had any suggestions as to what could be done, said more effectively, what things are missing in it. We spent a lot of our free time actually working together, drafting a response as to different areas to work on.
KF: You've come out of the meeting, you've come home, you say you feel more buoyant..is that because the Pope didn't demand your resignation.On top of that do you feel sorry for those that did resign perhaps and didn't stand their ground until such time as this was thought out and that they gave into public pressure?
BD: That's their own decision, I can't evaluate why they did what they did. I know Bishop Murray and Bishop Moriarty probably felt that the Murphy report did say things that were severely damaging .and their own credibility and in the eyes of their own people, it was probably difficult to cope with
KF: But you came under tremendous pressure, Bishop Martin Drennan, you came under huge pressure to resign and you didn't
BD: I'm still under a certain pressure but it's not in Galway and in Galway during the Novena I got terrific support and people said "come back come back be sure and come back to us now ".
KF: But it took strength to say "no, I'm not going "
BD: It did. And stress.
KF: Huge
BD: Huge
KF: Moving on Your message for the diocese, for the people of the diocese?
BD: A message of hope, I suppose. The main thing that the Pope said to us was a renewal of our own vision of faith..his remit was that if our faith was effective in the way it was we would have such respect for the dignity of each person that we would never even think of violating that dignity. It was a lovely central insight into where to pin our goal for the future, the restoration of that quality of faith, the quality of respect, the quality of reverence for a person that abuse or mistreatment would be unthinkable
KF: Are we not in that era now?
BD: We are moving towards it, I think.
KF: Do you think perhaps there are situations going on that are unacceptable at this stage, is there other abuse gong on, or has that stopped?
BD: You can never say it has stopped, but since 1996 there have been very very few cases reported of fresh cases of abuse. The guidelines are working very well and having representatives in each parish ..I mean, many eyes on ears on watchout is really helping things hugely. I suppose the first thing that needs to recover is our own confidence, our own reverence for each other, our reverence for people who have suffered as well That;s the important part of the journey forward.
KF: Did the pope give any indication as to whether he would come to Ireland to meet the victims?
BD: He didn't give that indication no, but he has met victims, generally quietly and privately out of the public eye, so he may arrange that. He's coming to England later in the year and somebody askedif he would he ever come to Ireland and he mentioned the Eucharistic conference in 2012. He didn't say he was coming but he mentioned that as a possibility but I have no doubt that if he regards it as appropriate he is certainly is open to meeting victims, but it would be quietly and probably now in the public eye.
KF: Where do you move from here?
BD: I just want to get back out in the parishes, the start of the confirmation season, meeting the people again, being supportive and enjoying their support as well I love moving round to parishes anyway as I enjoy the company of people ..I am looking forward to getting back at that ..meeting teachers, parents, pupils again. I found it really life giving each year and I am looking forward
For me, the winter is over, it's been a tough winter for the church and I am looking forward to the Spring.
KF: And you are not resigning
BD: I see no reason to resign