The Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Mr Dermot Ahern, told the tribunal that he travelled to London to meet Mr Joseph Murphy jnr to get to the bottom of allegations and rumours that a payment had been made to Mr Ray Burke.
At the meeting, Mr Murphy vigorously denied there was any meeting with Mr Burke or that any payment had been made.
Mr Ahern said he attended a meeting on June 24th, 1997, in London with Mr Murphy jnr with no other parties present. It took place in the Crest Forte hotel close to Heathrow airport and lasted approximately two hours.
The meeting was a result of a request from the then party leader, Mr Bertie Ahern, to meet Mr Murphy in order to get to the bottom of the myriad of allegations that payments were made to certain people.
Mr Murphy knew there were allegations that a payment of £40,000 was made to one politician at a meeting. He put it to Mr Murphy that the allegation was that Mr Michael Bailey, and either Mr Murphy snr or Mr Murphy jnr and Mr James Gogarty were at that meeting with Mr Burke.
"I told him (Mr Murphy) that the party leader had enquired of Mr Burke on many occasions prior to this as to whether or not any payments were made to him and that basically he hadn't got to the bottom of this issue with Mr Ray Burke and on each occasion Ray Burke said to the party leader that as far as he was concerned, there was nothing to worry about," Mr Ahern said.
He informed Mr Murphy that it had come to the party leader's attention that possibly the DPP was going to grant immunity to Mr Gogarty. The meeting with Mr Murphy took place two days prior to the Government being formed.
The questions he put to Mr Murphy were along the lines of whether either he or his father took part in any meeting with Mr Burke, Mr Bailey and Mr Gogarty in which a large sum of money was handed over to Mr Burke. Mr Murphy vehemently denied this.
The second question he asked was whether any undertaking was given by Mr Burke to him or anyone from his company regarding the granting of planning permission or rezoning of lands in north Dublin. Again, Mr Murphy vehemently denied this. The third question was whether any meeting at all had taken place with anyone of the company and Mr Burke and again Mr Murphy categorically said no.
Mr Murphy had a huge file and kept insisting he show him the documents. Mr Murphy vehemently denied giving money.
He showed him documents relating to a court case between the Murphy group and Lagos and this was settled for £100,000 and also the agreement concerning Mr Gogarty's £215,000 on the Moneypoint power station contract. He also indicated that Mr Gogarty was to get five years' salary at £23,000 and car as well.
Mr Murphy indicated that taking everything into consideration Mr Gogarty would get £630,000, but despite this Mr Gogarty kept coming back for more.
Mr Ahern went in to see the party leader in Leinster House. The Cabinet was being formed. When he went to the anteroom, Mr Burke was waiting to go in before him.