BARR TRIBUNAL: The chief Garda negotiator in the siege at Abbeylara has denied he used John Carthy's need for cigarettes as a "bargaining tool" during the 26-hour siege in April 2000.
Det Insp Michael Jackson of the Emergency Response Unit (ERU) told the Barr tribunal that gardaí were seeking nothing from Mr Carthy in return for the cigarettes. He said his only request to Mr Carthy was to put down the gun so that the cigarettes could be delivered safely.
However, tribunal counsel Mr Raymond Comyn SC referred to an earlier statement when the detective said the cigarettes "may also entice him into giving something in return, maybe agree to throw out some ammunition or maybe even the gun".
Det Insp Jackson said "nothing tangible was definitively required from John". The possibility of getting something from Mr Carthy was based on engaging successfully with him first and perhaps prompting him to give up something at a later stage.
Mr Carthy asked for 20 Major cigarettes at about 3 a.m. on the Thursday morning. He had been in the house with a gun for almost 12 hours at that point. However, he never got the cigarettes and was later shot dead by two ERU members as he left the house at about 5.45 p.m. that evening.
Det Insp Jackson rejected a suggestion from the tribunal chairman, Mr Justice Barr, that the cigarettes should have been delivered without Mr Carthy's knowledge.
There would have been a "substantial risk" in doing this, he said, as Mr Carthy could have left the house with the gun at that time.
"Would that not have been an extraordinary coincidence if it had happened?" asked Mr Justice Barr. "I think it was [a coincidence\] that was too dangerous to contemplate under the circumstances," Det Insp Jackson replied.
Asked why the cigarettes could not have been on the window sill when Mr Carthy was asleep in the early hours of Thursday morning, he said this would have encroached on Mr Carthy's territory. It would also have lost an opportunity to engage with Mr Carthy.
"The cigarette request was a huge opportunity to try and engage Mr Carthy," Det Insp Jackson said. "Unfortunately, when you look back in hindsight, it wasn't achieved and we had a tragic outcome."
Mr Carthy's psychiatrist, Dr David Shanley, earlier told the tribunal he felt the request for cigarettes had become "a sort of bargaining tool" for gardaí.
Det Insp Jackson also defended his decision to not bring Mr Carthy's GP, Dr Patrick Cullen, back to the scene later that night. He said he needed to get certain information from Dr Cullen about Mr Carthy's medical condition and he was confident that a detective garda was capable of getting that. Asked if it was a bad idea to rely on a second-hand version of such crucial information, he said: "Obviously I don't necessarily accept that."
He also rejected suggestions that he should have brought another solicitor to the scene when he could not establish the name of Mr Carthy's solicitor. He wanted to ensure that Mr Carthy was happy with the presence of a solicitor before one was called.
The tribunal also heard that Det Insp Jackson had been on duty since 7 a.m. on the day the siege began. He escorted a prisoner from Castlerea prison to the High Court and did diplomatic protective duty before being called to Abbeylara at 7.40 p.m. that evening. When his length of duty was raised, he said he was happy to continue on duty.
