SEANAD REPORT:SHANE ROSS (Ind) said he deeply regretted the premature decision of the Taoiseach to defend the chief executive of Fás in advance of the Dáil committee on public accounts or any other investigative body having made a judgment in this regard.

There had been a reluctance for a long time to examine Fás and one had to ask why.

"It is not just a political sacred cow, as one will find it to be highly politicised in a party political way . . . It must be a lean machine that works in the public service instead of a bloated cow."

Mr Ross said that for years it had not been just the Irish taxpayer who was funding Fás to the extent of €1 billion in what constituted unexplained money. European funds had also propped it up.

Dan Boyle (GP), Deputy Government leader in the House, said he supported the call for a debate in respect of Fás. He did not doubt that public money was being spent properly in community training workshops and community employment schemes.

"However, one is learning on a daily basis of an almost bacchanalian looseness regarding public expenditure in the higher echelons of a State agency," he said.

Eugene Regan (FG) said that as minister for finance and as Taoiseach, Mr Cowen had emphasised the issue of value for money. "However, when dealing with the head of Fás, Rody Molloy, who is from Birr in Offaly, and is personally known to the Taoiseach, we tear up the rule book and suggest that everything is all right, and the Taoiseach says we do not go there. As is evident from his interview, Mr Molloy is out of touch when it comes to value for money and the use of Government funds."

Labhrás Ó Murchú (FF) said he hoped the debate did not have the effect of demoralising Fás staff before all the facts were available.

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Eugene Regan (FG) asked if former taoiseach Bertie Ahern would be getting a finder's fee for facilitating the introduction of private equity firms to the Minister for Finance with regard to the recapitalisation of the banks. He wondered why the recapitalisation matter was so urgent now, given that the Minister had previously stated that the issue did not arise.

"Then, when friends came with a scheme, facilitated by . . . Bertie Ahern, it was all urgent . . . secret meetings and rumours in the media, with no clear indication to this House or the other as to what is going on," he said.