FORMER EDUCATION minister Dr Michael Woods described as “scurrilous” remarks by Labour leader Eamon Gilmore that he did not include the attorney general in discussions on the 2002 child abuse indemnity deal.

Dr Woods, who negotiated the controversial agreement, interrupted Leaders’ Questions in the Dáil yesterday as Mr Gilmore said that society had to face up to “some very painful facts” about the horrific crimes committed against children.

The former minister insisted that “the attorney general was never out of the loop” in the deal. He also stressed that “a final memo [on the deal] was submitted to government and “considered thoroughly”.

Mr Gilmore had said the big question was how this horrific abuse was allowed to happen and added that “a clue to this is to be found in recent comments made by the Taoiseach’s predecessor Bertie Ahern and former minister for education, deputy Michael Woods”.

He said that Mr Ahern “accused those of us seeking a re-opening of the 2002 indemnity deal as being somehow anti-clerical. In the case of Deputy Woods, he has explained why he did not include the attorney general in discussions because as he put it, the legal people had fallen out with the religious”.

The Labour leader claimed that “therein lies a clue as to why the blind eye was turned over the decades. There was an unhealthy deferential relationship between the State and its institutions and the Catholic Church and its religious orders.

“Until we honestly as a country, Government and parliament, face up to it and face it down to determine it will never happen again, we will again be failing the victims of these awful crimes.”

Deputy Woods walked into the chamber as Mr Gilmore was speaking, and when he finished, intervened to ask Mr Gilmore to “withdraw the slanderous and scurrilous statement he made in respect of me”.

Ceann Comhairle John O’Donoghue ruled him out of order but said he could speak later. Mr Gilmore said he was “delighted to hear from Deputy Woods on the issue. It is a pity that in 2002 he did not bring the indemnity deal before the House for approval”.

The Residential Redress Board Bill was, however, brought to the House and agreed by all sides.

The Labour leader said some mechanism should be allowed to give Dr Woods “ample opportunity to say what he has to say about that deal, how it was concluded, who was and was not present and what advice was provided”.

When Dr Woods spoke later he said that the indemnity was in the legislation brought before the House at the time and discussed.

“It was discussed time and again but the detail was ultimately a matter for the attorney general. It was left to him and the government and was finalised after the legislation was completed in the House.”

The Fianna Fáil TD stressed that “the attorney general was never out of the loop”.

He pointed out that the Public Accounts committee “dealt with this whole issue forensically”.

He said the talks with the negotiating team broke down between September and February.

“I was not on the negotiating team. My job was only in respect of a policy issue. It was to get the talks back on line and not to get into legal or other detail,” Mr Woods said. He said that a final memo on the deal went to Government at the time and was “considered thoroughly”.