Former Fianna Fáil fundraiser Des Richardson said he would sometimes use cash raised for the party to fund his activities on behalf of the party.
Mr Richardson said he acted as a fundraiser for eight years. When appointed chief fundraiser for Fianna Fáil in April 1993, the party had a £3 million debt.
"At that stage we were firefighting every single day on the fundraising account of Fianna Fáil. Every Monday morning when I woke up, we had an £8,000 interest bill on top of the Fianna Fáil debt," he said.
Mr Richardson agreed with Des O'Neill SC, for the tribunal, that he used a company called Willdover to invoice Fianna Fáil for the £5,000 in fees he was due each month for his fundraising services.
Expenses incurred were invoiced separately, using his own name.
Mr Richardson said he also on occasion spent cash received on various expenses, but would tell Fianna Fáil when he did so. At one stage he was contemplating settling a debt in Cork using a $10,000 donation to the party he said he was given in Manchester by businessman Norman Turner. In the event he used funds from Willdover, which were in effect his own funds.
He said the very first fundraising event he organised as chief party fundraiser was a dinner in Dobbins restaurant in Dublin. There were 100 people who paid £150 each, and there was also a raffle which raised £1,000 to £1,500.
He said that after the raffle he informed Fianna Fáil's then financial controller, Seán Fleming, that he was keeping the raffle money to fund office expenditures.
Mr Richardson said he was also involved over a period of years in raising funds for Mr Ahern's constituency operation, but he said he did not know how much was needed annually to fund that operation.
"I have no idea. Never had an idea."
