A resilient Bertie Ahern is proud to have matched de Valera's electoral record, he tells Stephen Collins.
Bertie Ahern has spoken about how bemused he is by the Mahon tribunal, saying it is hurtful to see the private affairs of his family and friends aired in public because of their association with him. In a Christmas interview with The Irish Times, conducted before his most recent appearance at the Mahon tribunal, he added that he had not allowed the tribunal to interfere with the way he did his job as Taoiseach.
Asked about the strain it had imposed on him personally, Mr Ahern said: "I find it all more bemusing than anything else. Mr Gilmartin has made a series of completely bizarre allegations and what he has said has nothing to do with me or my friends helping me out. All of this is a million miles away from Quarryvale. I never got a penny from O'Callaghan and that is well known but the tribunal seem intent on doing a cradle to grave trawl of my finances," said Mr Ahern.
"If you are asking me is the tribunal a strain, it's not on me personally but it is hurtful to see my family and friends have their private affairs aired in public solely because they are associated with me. It was frustrating and painful to me and my loved ones to have information sensitive to our family thrown into an election campaign, and also leaked in September 2006."
The Taoiseach said he had been encouraged by so many people in all walks of life who told him they were disgusted by what had happened. "I am a resilient person and in public life you learn to take the knocks and I've also enjoyed great support from my colleagues and the public at large who I think recognise that I was going through a difficult personal time surrounding my separation. I am lucky that I had good friends who helped me out."
Mr Ahern added that the tribunal had not interfered with his job. "I am not going to let anyone do that. In my dealings with the Mahon tribunal, I have never missed an official function, meeting or engagement. I have given the Mahon tribunal huge co-operation and if that means having to work later into the night or eating up any of my personal time, that's what I've done and what I will continue to do. I am not going to be deflected from my duties that I was elected to do by the people," he said.
Mr Ahern said that being elected Taoiseach for the third time was undoubtedly the high point of his career. "It is a honour and a privilege that I will always be grateful to the Irish people for. I am told that no taoiseach has been elected three times running since de Valera in 1944 so I am proud of that and proud of the work that my colleagues and I have put in over the years."
Mr Ahern said it wasn't always simple to get his message across and he pointed to the fact that Fianna Fáil did much better than most of the polls during the campaign had indicated.
"I think that even the most seasoned media reporters now accept that much of the election debate which revolved around opinion polls proved to be largely inaccurate when set against the actual result. So I think we were all very happy to see that the final result was closer to what we believed the reality on the ground was rather than what the opinion polls were predicting." He said that the key factor in the result was his party's determination and will to win.
"A lot of people were writing Fianna Fáil off but we fought hard in the last election because we understand the consequences of elections. We know that if the nation takes the wrong path, all the progress that some take for granted can be lost. The commitment shown in the run-up to May's election will long be remembered as one of the strongest political performances ever. Despite facing into a strong wind, our passionate belief in Fianna Fáil and in our plans for the future helped to turn it around.
"While our opponents spoke about buying new shoes for the Áras, the Fianna Fáil membership the length and breadth of this country did the hard work and wore out their shoe leather knocking on doors and getting out the vote. And in the end the people stood with us, and cast their votes for our candidates and our party, because they understood that we offered the best vision for Ireland's future."
He said that on the day the election campaign began he had said the electorate had a real choice to make and that there were two very different alternatives before them. "This was a choice about whether Ireland goes forward or back. It was a choice about whether the substantial component of the next government would consist of Fianna Fáil with our plans to build on the progress of the past decade. Or a choice about whether the substantial component of the next government would consist of an untested alternative who were asking people to gamble on a flawed contract based on empty promises.
"After a decade in government, Fianna Fáil now has more TDs than when I first became Taoiseach in June 1997. This in itself is a substantial achievement and one almost unparalleled in modern European political history. But more than anything else, this result can only be interpreted as an endorsement of the policies and political commitment which have helped transform our country," he said.
Asked what he regarded as his most important political achievements, the Taoiseach said: "On a national level, I will never forget the Good Friday agreement. The negotiations were painstaking but the prize of peace was huge. The agreement led to the first concurrent act of all-Ireland self-determination since 1918. It was a hugely significant event in the history of this island and much of the progress of recent times has stemmed from our support for and commitment to the agreement.
"Above all else, I pledged on the day I was elected Taoiseach that the priority I would put above others would be to work for peace on this island. I have given my all to that cause. I know that Irish people everywhere take tremendous pride in the role we played in negotiating the Good Friday agreement, which provides the political framework for building peace based on a just settlement."
He said that on the international stage he was particularly proud of Ireland's EU presidency in 2004. "It was a great honour for me to lead the country through that period and I was bowled over by the skill and dedication of our diplomats and officials who did amazing work. I really believe our presidency in 2004 was a momentous period in Ireland's membership of the European Union. We were faced with some major difficulties for our six months at the helm, but by the end we succeeded in achieving all of the goals which we set ourselves, and in some cases exceeding all expectations."
Asked which politician he had met during his career he admired most Mr Ahern singled out former US president Bill Clinton. "I have said many times that I have deep respect and regard for Bill Clinton. He is an outstanding politician who has worked tirelessly for others all of his life. President Clinton has devoted a lifetime to achieving things for people which many other politicians simply talk about. He is a gifted communicator, orator and writer, all of which are very important in this day and age. He has a natural affinity with people which is very evident to everyone who meets him."
Turning to the Irish political scene he maintained that the coalition with the Green Party was working well.
"Election 2007 has delivered a new political landscape. I think people said they wanted stability, reform of services, and greater appreciation for the world we live in today. Undoubtedly this reflects an awareness of responsibility in relation to a desire for continued political priority in the area of environmental protection and planning.
"So I think there was never a better time for the Green Party to be in Government to reflect this new determination. I have enjoyed working with my colleagues from the Green Party in Government and believe that they have already made a significant contribution.
"Their sense of purpose in terms of their policies is commendable and forthright, but they have also brought a fresh thinking to many other issues which I think is also beneficial from the Government's point of view. Their approach to business is pragmatic and workmanlike, which are qualities I admire. Collectively we are proud of the Programme for Government and intend to work hard together to ensure that it is implemented fully over the next five years."
Mr Ahern said he hoped the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty would be held before the summer and he pledged a strong campaign for a Yes vote. "I strongly believe that a Yes vote by the Irish people will enable us to benefit from the undoubted jobs growth, inward investment, environmental and social progress which our full involvement in the EU has brought to date.
"I know the No lobby have again begun to suggest that this treaty will demote Ireland to the second division within Europe. The reality is that it is only a No vote which will lessen Ireland's influence in Europe and, consequently, reverse much of the progress we have made over the last decade."
He said that it would be his preference to hold the children's referendum on the same day as the EU treaty vote but he had an open mind on the issue and it would depend on the work of the Oireachtas Committee established to examine the issue and, in particular, how successful it was in reaching an agreed position.