Dermot Desmond is sitting in the Dorchester Hotel, Mayfair, right at the heart of things. Hyde Park is opposite, Piccadilly just around the corner. This is England. This is where Dermot Desmond wants to be. And this is where he wants Celtic, the football club he owns almost a fifth of, to be. Soon.

Do not mock. Desmond's name may register only faintly in England at present but this is a figure of power within his - growing - sphere of influence. And, more often than not, Desmond gets what he wants.

The 50-year-old multi-millionaire is an associate of JP McManus and John Magnier, the men who have just bought into Manchester United. Numbered among Desmond's close friends is Alex Ferguson. Tiger Woods is a Desmond golf partner.

According to the Sunday Times Rich List, Desmond's personal wealth is around £460 million sterling. This individual is a serious player. And he wants Celtic in the Premiership.

Consequently, when early on in the interview, in reference to Celtic and their Old Firm neighbours Rangers moving south, Desmond said, "I don't know when it will happen, but to me it's inevitable", it was not the musing of an innocent. He described Celtic's relationship with Rangers as one of "independent co-operation".

Behind-the-scenes, attitudes are changing. These are people with a strategy. In more than one sense, they are movers.

So, too, is the Celtic chairman Brian Quinn. A former governor of the Bank of England, he is not without clout. When he said a fortnight ago that he had been invited to bring Celtic into the Premiership by an English-club chairman who stated, "I have plans", it added weight to the increasing belief in Scotland that Celtic and Rangers will join English football, possibly as early as season 2004-05. Yesterday, the Rangers chairman, David Murray, said much the same thing. The idea has acquired some momentum.

Southern sceptics may laugh, traditionalists may howl, but this can happen. Never forget the most important football lesson in the modern era - the big clubs get what they want.

And the two big clubs in Scotland want out because the Old Firm need to get out. The imperative is two-fold: economics and playing standards. Numerically, for example, only Manchester United attract more fans than Celtic every week, yet the revenue Celtic generate from television is less than £3 million sterling a year - roughly seven months' salary to Juan Veron.

That makes life difficult in the market. That makes life difficult on the pitch, especially abroad. Then Rangers and Celtic return from midweek European trips to face domestic opponents they dwarf. It is not hard to understand the frustration. This time last year it provoked Desmond into calling Scottish football a "failed economic model". It was harsh, but few disagreed.

Desmond is well regarded for his ability to spot a gap in a future market and exploit it. This appears to be what Desmond , McManus and Magnier do particularly well, well enough for Desmond and McManus to be tax exiles in Gibraltar and Geneva and for Magnier to have a house in Barbados called Gatwick. Barbados also boasts the Sandy Lane hotel, one of the most expensive in the world, and jointly-owned by Desmond.

Coincidentally, Barbados is home to Joe Lewis, founder of Enic, which now owns Tottenham Hotspur and which pumped £40 million sterling into Rangers. A love of golf, horses and the thrill of the chase seem to be essential to the mutual respect. Movers recognise shakers. An intimate discussion concerning Desmond's business interests was a non-starter at the Dorchester but he was sufficiently relaxed to clarify a few myths that have built up around himself and the notion of the Coolmore Mafia.

It is not a phrase he finds offensive despite the intrinsic insinuation. "That's just a journalistic term for a headline," Desmond said of the Mafia tag. "Everybody in Ireland has pride in Coolmore winning blue ribands worldwide. So to be associated with Coolmore is always something that's good." Not that Desmond has any investment there, or horses - he said that was a misconception.

Another assumption about Desmond is that he is part of Cubic Expression, the company through which his two colleagues have upped their stake in Manchester United. He denied this. He also denied that McManus and Magnier have subscribed to the current share issue at Celtic.

A third denial was that his friend Ferguson is centrally involved in a plot by Cubic Expression. "The three of us know Alex Ferguson well and we like him as an individual and admire him for what he has achieved. He also has an interest in racing. But everybody linking stories, a coup supporting Alex, that's just journalistic speculation. JP and John have come out and said this is a long-term investment. That's what they said and they're generally very accurate."

Still, the conspiracy theorists will wonder. If Celtic and Rangers can get the backing of England's biggest club then they are a sizeable step down the line. Because, while English sympathy for the Old Firm's plight is one thing, translating that into action is another. Who would vote for this mini-revolution?

Surely there would be legal problems. Would not the Football Association, the Football League and UEFA object? Desmond's answer is: "Why would they?" Broadly, his arguments are these: It makes economic sense because Celtic and Rangers will increase the size of the money pool for everyone; it makes entertainment sense because more people would rather watch Tottenham Hotspur v Rangers than West Ham v Southampton.

"It's very simple," he said, "there's no mystery to it. Commercially, it would work because the audiences would increase - in Ireland, Scotland, globally - then the advertising revenue would increase. Second, from a football standpoint, would the Premier League be better with Celtic and Rangers in it? I'd like to think so. That's progress, for everybody.

"There's been a lot of ballyhoo about it, but people can't just say it's not going to happen, they have to say why it shouldn't happen and articulate the reasons." So you try. You say that every national association and league within UEFA is based on national boundaries and that this would set an almighty precedent. You say the Scottish FA and Scottish League would effectively be crushed, and UEFA would not sanction that. You say the clubs in England simply would not consider it as, ultimately, it would be more competition and would threaten some. From those three sources there is also the threat of legal action.

Desmond counters. "I don't think UEFA are looking for boundaries. What about Monaco? That's a sovereign state, they play in France. What about the Welsh clubs? They can join the Premier League. Nobody owns Celtic except the shareholders. We can move Celtic anywhere.

"The reality in Scotland is that there are two clubs who are far bigger than the others. So it's out of kilter. Rangers and Celtic are clearly Scottish clubs and represent Scotland. This is not an anti-Scottish agenda. It is a question of whether Scottish clubs fly the Scottish flag in their own back yard or farther afield.

"I believe that you should go for a market that creates a greater football challenge and remunerates you at a level that means you can compete with the best. Because money determines whether you can retain players - not even buy them, retain them. If we once again got 11 Glaswegians like the '67 Lisbon Lions team, could we retain them?

"Turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas, we know that. But why should the majority of Premiership chairmen vote for the bottom of the league, why have the weakest as the common denominator? "There are chairmen of clubs that I would know. I talk to them about it. The response has been good and exciting. Those that are strong within themselves would welcome it; others that are weak would feel threatened. I have spoken to some about it but it's nothing that we have done formally.

"It's an informal situation, taking soundings, starting a debate, at least getting people thinking about it. And we should always be thinking about ways to improve the product."

Desmond thinks that "product" is in for major change quickly. "I think we're in a football bubble just like we were in a technology bubble. The more we have the kind of expenditure Real Madrid and some Italian clubs have been incurring, the more likely it is to burst. There have to be structural changes in football - transfer fees, salary levels, agents - because there could soon be turmoil on a pan-European basis. Toulouse have just gone into administration, lots of clubs in the UK have sold the family silver, media rights, shareholdings. They won't have that escape route any more.

"We are not doing anything in a covert way or in a way that does not have the endorsement of the relevant authorities, but these potential opportunities should be examined. "Although Desmond would not specify a timetable, the new Premiership television contract expires in 2004 and that would be an obvious window for Rangers and Celtic to climb through. By then football could look very different if the bubble does burst.

Celtic may also. The three-year deal that concerns most of their fans, relates to Martin O'Neill's contract and whether he will see it out. Fed up with the endless speculation about his manager migrating to Old Trafford, Desmond's stance has become: "I don't really care about Martin O'Neill's contract.

"All I care about is whether Martin O'Neill is happy at Celtic and motivated at Celtic. Whether that is for two years, three years, six or seven, as long as Martin feels like that he'll be at Celtic. I am not going to wake up every morning wondering whether Martin O'Neill is staying at or leaving Celtic. I'll leave that to newspapers. But, as far as I'm concerned, I don't need a contract with Martin and he doesn't need one with Celtic. He's a man of honour, a person I trust implicitly."

The English question could well inform the situation. Prior to the Scottish Cup final in May, O'Neill addressed it. "Maybe it will happen, maybe not," he said. "But don't rule it out. You must always realise the ever-increasing power exerted by the television companies."

A half-declaration of faith from a leading football man. Others seem certain to follow. Desmond's work has begun.