Picture the scene. The younger, more irreverent members of the All Blacks want the celebrated rear seats on the team bus, hitherto the preserve of the senior players, and set about staking their claim in a full-scale fight. When the squad eventually disembarks at their intended arrival point, stunned onlookers are aghast at the All Blacks' dishevelled appearances, collars and ties all over the place, visibly bruised and cut.

"The back seats were an old tradition on the All Black team bus, I think it's gone now," recalls Warren Gatland. "The young players were taking on the back seat players; full-on fighting for 10 or 15 minutes on the back seat of the bus. Of course the manager was up at the front panicking, whereas Grizz (Alex Wyllie) was saying nothing; probably enjoying it. Because that's the old tradition."

Warren Gatland recounts the story with a broad smile as evidence of Alex `Grizz' Wyllie's approach during the four years he spent under Wyllie with the All Blacks.

"You might see a wry smile on his face if a couple of digs were thrown at training. There'd be nothing in it, but that's what he used to like about it. He would want to see how tough you were mentally and physically, just to see if there were any cracks. As players you just don't give in, don't show any hurt, show no pain."

"He was old school, hard and uncompromising. I suppose he epitomises typical New Zealand rugby," says Gatland. "The old work-hard ethic, train hard, play hard. Enjoy yourself afterwards, get out and have a few beers, then turn up the next day and front up in training."

Gatland concedes it was the hardest training he ever experienced as a player. "Definitely, but I think in a good way. When you played club rugby over there and provincial rugby, when you stepped up you wanted to work harder, and also the players were really pushing each other."

Mostly sitting on the bench as understudy to Sean Fitzpatrick, and not being one of the front-line players, Gatland wasn't as close as other All Blacks to Wyllie.

The tutor now takes on the mentor, though whether it will give Gatland insider knowledge of his former coach's approach tonight is debatable. "He's got his own style. Pichot said when he (Wyllie) first came in that he couldn't stand him. Then he got to know him and now they're good friends. `This is what I am and this is what you get' basically is Grizz for you."

The biggest lesson Wyllie ever imparted to Gatland? "I suppose the demand in quality, and ruthlessness about putting sides away. For me, as a second-string All Black, you never felt comfortable in the position, so any time I went out there, I wasn't just playing for my team, but also trying to impress so I was involved the next time. Loyalty is one of his strengths as well, every player knew exactly what he wanted from them."

The perception (unfair most probably) of gravelly-voiced Grizz is of a taciturn, almost unfriendly kind of fellow, perhaps happier amongst the people he knows well. "I think that's the way people describe some New Zealanders, including myself," laughs Gatland.

"He wouldn't speak for the sake of speaking, he wouldn't hold press conferences to promote himself publicly as other coaches do. He wouldn't be going out of his way to promote himself."

For Wyllie, crossing swords with Gatland once more, this time in Lens, gives him a sense of deja-vu. "First it was Graham Henry and a few New Zealanders in the Wales' line-up, then it was Samoa with Byran Williams and all theirs, and even Japan had five Kiwis in their ranks. And now it's Warren."

Wyllie admits it's almost impossible to single out a player who might one day become coach. As for Gatland? "At the time he was playing under Fitzie, and he was unlucky to be playing under such a good player. But he played well for Waikato and was always a good player."

The ultimate irony is that whether Argentina win or lose tomorrow night, Wyllie is bound to share the same flight with the Irish squad. "Either we go on to Dublin for the quarter-finals, or my contract with Argentina ends and I get on board to take up my new job with Clontarf. Either way I'm bound for Dublin."