Former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had a secret meeting with loyalist paramilitaries in a south Dublin church during the peace process.
Details of the meeting were revealed by Mr Ahern in a podcast hosted by his son-in-law, radio and television presenter Nicky Byrne, on the podcast channel Nicky Byrne HQ on Thursday.
Mr Ahern told the podcast: “It was felt at a critical time that I should really hold a hand of friendship out to the loyalist guys, to the key guys on the loyalist side, not the parties, not the political representatives, but the actual UDA, UVF and Red Hand Commandos.
“In the end, it was agreed, with the help of [the then] archbishop [of Armagh, Robin] Eames that we would meet in a small church in South Dublin.
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“I couldn’t drive out because it was a secret meeting. One of my security guys got a van from the guards, one of the undercover vans.”
Mr Ahern confirmed he told only one member of his security staff. “The advice from on high in the guards I’m sure was, you need to tell us so we have more undercover there,” he said.
He told only one political adviser who attended the meeting with him, his adviser on Northern Irish affairs, “the great Martin Mansergh”, he said.
“He got there separately because we couldn’t take the risk that someone would follow. Martin was there already waiting for me at the church,” Mr Ahern said.
“I went into the room and nobody stood up, so we had a meeting. But the end of the meeting, they all stood up and all shook hands to me.
“One of them then, he turned around and he said, ‘You came to meet us in this secret location, and we saw the van coming in. So you came secretly, and you have no security. We appreciate that. But would you bring us into your office to meet us?’ thinking that I’d say no, and I said: ‘I will, the next time we meet, you can walk in the gates of Government Buildings.’
“There was silence. Because they did not think that the Taoiseach – and a lot of people might think he shouldn’t have given them the respect – but from my point of view, I was trying to do a certain job. I mean, it is risky, of course it is. But at the same time, if your job is to end the violence, you have to try to bring those that are engaged in the violence. They were the people we had to convince and the only way I should think of doing it was to meet them.”
The date of the secret meeting was not stated on the podcast. But history records that Mr Ahern did meet loyalist representatives and others in Government Buildings in January 2004, when he met members of the Ulster Political Research Group in an hour-long meeting which the loyalists later described as amicable.
The five-man delegation included the Ulster Defence Association’s South Belfast Commander Jackie McDonald. Research Group spokesman Tommy Kirkham said: “It certainly was historic; we came down and voiced the concerns of the loyalist community to the Taoiseach.”
“Most people thought that meeting was the first meeting but it wasn’t,” Mr Ahern said.
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