What is happening today and what is new
- Senior RTÉ executives challenged accounts given by Ryan Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly about payments to Tubridy during their appearance at the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).
- RTÉ contradicted a number of assertions made and addressed the accounts of Tubridy and Kelly around the arrangement with Renault – which saw the presenter paid an extra €75,000 a year, ultimately sourced from RTÉ.
- Share your thoughts: Will you still pay your TV licence? Would you like to hear Ryan Tubridy back on air soon?
- Minister for Arts and Media Catherine Martin announced on Wednesday the appointment of Mazars as forensic accountants to assist the reviews into practices and culture at RTÉ.
Best reads
- Today’s lead: RTÉ bosses to challenge Tubridy and Kelly’s account of payments at PAC hearing
- Hugh Linehan: Ryan Tubridy is the inoffensive figurehead RTÉ wanted
- Fintan O’Toole: In the end, Ryan Tubridy resorted to the Father Ted defence
- I was a writer on Toy Show the Musical. It has been a weird time, writes Lisa Tierney-Keogh
- Harry McGee tees up the day in our politics digest: last day of Dáil set to be dominated by RTÉ and Ryan Tubridy again
As TDs prepare to vacate Leinster House for their constituency redoubts, their consideration of the issues will continue, as will those of others.
There are now four investigations into the fallout of all of this, reporter Rory Fleming writes, from forensic accountants to expert advisory committees.
Central to Tubridy’s defence was the claim of “mistruths” from RTÉ in its account of the situation to date. According to the presenter, there were seven. Not so, says RTÉ's new director-general.
Amid the more abstract questions about governance and specific questions about who knew what when, there is the question Ryan Tubridy’s current status, having stepped down from the Late Late Show and been taken off air for “editorial reasons” on the radio. Kevin Bakhurst told the committee he is not being paid as of this week.
Some video highlights of events at the Public Accounts Committee as RTÉ pushes back against claims by Ryan Tubridy and Noel Kelly and seeks to answer outstanding questions in relation to its pay deals and governance, via Enda O’Dowd.
Ryan Tubridy’s future: ‘I don’t want to leave it too long’
RTÉ director general Kevin Bakhurst is asked again whether he plans to bring Ryan Tubridy back on air.
“I can’t answer for anyone else but I have not contacted him since Tuesday,” he says.
“I don’t want to rush into a decision on this. I want to make it in due time. I want to be fair to Ryan. It’s clearly critical for him”
He adds that he needs to talk to some “key members of radio staff” and colleagues on the leadership team, and consider “what is the right thing for RTÉ”, and then have a conversation with Tubridy.
“But I don’t want to leave it too long,” he adds.
Committee concludes
Jennifer Bray writes:
The committee has wrapped up with a number of different contributions. Wexford TD Verona Murphy asked again about Breda O’Keeffe’s exit package.
RTÉ's interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch said he stands over his earlier comment that he did not sign off it, even though he was on the executive.
The committee has now ended after about four and a half hours of hearings.
Register of interests at RTÉ would ‘level the playing field’
On plans for a register of interests at RTÉ, Green Party TD Marc Ó Cathasaigh asks what the broadcaster will do make it clear to the public what sort of influence money can buy.
RTÉ commercial director Conor Mullen says there are “very clear guidelines” from the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland – now the Media Commission.
He says product placement is very heavily restricted and must go through an approval process too.
RTÉ's group head of sport Declan McBennett says a register of interests would be greatly welcomed across the organisation to “level the playing field” between staff.
RTÉ to examine exit package of former chief financial officer
The committee has moved back to talking about RTÉ's former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe’s exit package.
She left RTÉ in March 2020 after 17 years with the organisation and was replaced by Richard Collins.
At the Oireachtas Media Committee, Ms O’Keeffe said she left RTÉ under “a voluntary restructuring programme” that she had applied for.
Most packages normally involved a payment to the departing member of staff which were normally granted in circumstances where their role was suppressed or there was a reorganisation within the company to reflect a role being made redundant.
“I also left under a voluntary restructuring programme at the time. I just wanted to make that clear. At the time, there was an offer in place, a restructuring programme, with terms and conditions for staff. I applied under that scheme,” Ms O’Keefe told the Media Committee.
RTÉ's interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch has just told the Public Accounts Committee: “We are going to look into this and report back.”
He says he “never saw paperwork in relation to Breda O’Keeffe.”
‘My God’: text arrives from RTÉ's former chief financial officer
Jennifer Bray writes:
RTÉ's interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch interrupts proceedings to say he has received a text from the former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe to say that she “would dispute the idea that nobody on the executive board knew.”
In response, Verona Murphy TD exclaims: “My God.”
Committee members say they do not to want to hear “second-hand evidence”.
Verona Murphy says she is at a loss as to why Mr Lynch thought it appropriate to deliver a message from Breda O’Keeffe, who said she could not appear before the committee on the basis that she had nothing further to add.
She says she is not sure Mr Lynch understands the seriousness.
Lynch says: “I felt it was material.”
Chair Brian Stanley said the committee would like to see Ms O’Keeffe appear.
RTÉ to seek recoupment of €150,000 from Ryan Tubridy over outstanding Renault appearances
Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon has asked RTÉ director general Kevin Bakhurst if the broadcaster will look to recoup the €150,000 in “secret payments” to Ryan Tubridy.
Tubridy told the committee earlier this week that he was willing to repay these sums if he did not fulfil the appearances.
Bakhurst says on a legal basis, it might not be available to recuperate.
“Should Mr Kelly and Mr Tubridy decide to pay it back because it’s the right thing to do then we would welcome that,” he adds.
Dillon says Tubridy has already expressed a willingness to pay it back, to which Bakhurst replies: “It’s money from the licence fee payer. RTÉ made a mistake. Mr Tubridy has done nothing wrong in taking that money.”
Asked by Dillon if he will seek to recuperate the sum anyway, Bakhurst says: “Yes.”
When asked if Ryan Tubridy is still being paid, Bakhurst says he is not “at the moment” and says “we need to resume discussions on that”.
He confirms that an invoice for payment to him was received recently and he had taken advice that he should be paid until there is agreement on the amount.
Fanning apologises for tweet
Dave Fanning has “apologised unreservedly” for his “ill-judged comment” regarding this week’s Oireachtas hearings into the RTÉ payments.
“There was no intention to trivialise the proceedings,” he wrote.
The since deleted tweet committee described the hearings as being a “nonsensical Oireachtas Nuremberg trial”.
It was raised earlier in today’s meeting by Labour TD Alan Kelly who questioned how it could be considered to be appropriate.
RTÉ's director general Kevin Bakhurst agreed that it was not appropriate.
‘What was put out was that there was an understatement of the figure, and it was the fault of RTÉ.’
Jennifer Bray writes:
Sinn Féin’s John Brady is asking about payments from 2017 to 2019.
He wants an update after Ryan Tubridy said he did not receive a €120,000 exit payment.
Siún Ní Raghallaigh, the chair of the board, says she previously set out that he did not receive it.
“What was put out was that there was an understatement of the figure, and it was the fault of RTÉ.”
John Brady asks if legal papers have been served on RTÉ recently, and the team says no.
Moving on, John Brady says it has been stated there was no credit card attached to the account.
Conor Mullen, commercial director, says he understands payments are only made through invoices but he intends to further clarify this.
Asked what the future holds for Donnybrook and RTÉ, director general Kevin Bakhurst says a lot of work has been done around future options and the future shape of the organisation.
“All have advantages and disadvantages, and they all have price tags attached to them. A lot of it hinges on future funding.”
Bakhurst reiterates that there are “key players missing from the discussion” but that we know fundamentally what happened, which is that payments were made, sanctioned by individuals, and this should not have happened.
RTÉ to examine deals with Noel Kelly’s other clients
Public Accounts Committee chair, Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley, asks RTÉ's new director general Kevin Bakhurst if he can confirm whether RTÉ will investigate all of Noel Kelly’s clients, their contracts and invoices.
“Can they now be looked at, and report back to the committee on it?” Stanley asks.
“Yes, I would like to satisfy myself we will certainly do that,” Bakhurst says.
Brian Stanley also asks RTÉ's director of finance Richard Collins whether he can could confirm if Noel Kelly has previously received money via the controversial barter account.
Collins says “once” to the best of his knowledge – on 30th November, 2018, there is a reference to €2,394 raised from a charity lunch, held by Noel Kelly in aid of Chernobyl.
Future funding model for RTÉ
Jennifer Bray writes:
Committee chair, Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley, is asking RTÉ's new director general Kevin Bakhurst about the future funding model of RTÉ.
He asks Mr Bakhurst if he would agree to the Comptroller and Auditor General having oversight of RTÉ finances.
The C&AG himself, Seamus McCarthy, who sits on the PAC, says legislation would be needed.
Mr Bakhurst says: “I think if that gives added reassurance ... any added reassurance we can get ...” without finishing the sentence.
‘We have to find €150,000′
The committee has been told by chair Brian Stanley that they still not have the emails referenced by Adrian Lynch at the opening of the meeting this morning, which details a conversation between Noel Kelly and Dee Forbes in 2022.
Green Party TD Marc Ó Cathasaigh says “somebody somewhere in the organisation said we have to find €150,000, and we have to keep it on the QT. And someone said: ‘Do you know where? Down the back of the couch: the barter fund’. That is the crux of the matter.”
RTÉ's interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch said there was a direction from former RTÉ director general Dee Forbes to the company’s director of commercial, Geraldine O’Leary, to do this.
“NK Management came looking to be rightfully for year two and year three. We know the Renault agreement had expired,” Mr Lynch says, before being cut off, unable to not finish his point.
‘What are the consequences?’
Imelda Munster wants to know what consequences there will be for this controversy.
RTÉ's new director general Kevin Bakhurst says “there have been consequences. Half of the executive team have been stood down or have left the organisation.”
He says some people have paid a “high price” for “marginal involvement” in these issues.
‘You misled the committee’
Jennifer Bray writes:
Sinn Féin TD Imelda Munster is up now.
She is asking RTÉ's interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch about that now infamous February 2020 letter guaranteeing the commercial deal.
She says that all payments were made and puts it to Mr Lynch: “You had to know.”
She adds: “You knew about the payments. You knew the payment was underwritten by RTÉ. You misled this committee.”
Lynch responds: “I did not mislead this committee.”
He says it was underwritten on May 2020 and that is the decision he was not aware of, or other members of the executive.
‘I’m at the point where I don’t know what to believe now’
The Public Accounts Committee has resumed after a short break.
Fianna Fáil TD James O’Connor says transparency is needed if the public can move on, otherwise the controversy will continue to roll on.
Like other members of the committee, he expresses frustration with the quality and speed of information being made available.
He says that while be believed Ryan Tubridy made “enormous mistakes”, the drip-feed of information from RTÉ has been “less than helpful” and “disappointing”.
RTÉ's new director general Kevin Bakhurst says that the “information is coming out as quickly as we can” and expects “maximum transparency”.
“I’m sorry if it appears as a drip-feed,” he adds.
‘You can use figures in whichever way you want to use them’
Jennifer Bray writes:
In response to Alan Kelly, Kevin Bakhurst said he does not accept Ryan Tubridy’s contention that there have been seven untruths.
Bakhurst is also asked by Kelly if he accepts that Tubridy took a 20 per cent pay cut.
Bakhurst says: “you can use figures in whichever way you want to use them. When do you say you have taken the 20 per cent pay cut from? What does it include?”
Alan Kelly then asks about the “whole payment process which is the bit that the general public finds a complete laugh.”
Kevin Bakhurst says “when I heard about those payments I found it appalling, disgusting.”
He adds “I have no idea why anyone involved ever thought it was appropriate on any side, and there was more than one side involved.”
Analysis: ‘A little carrot, a fair bit of stick’
Harry McGee writes:
The approach of the RTÉ team to this morning’s meeting of the Public Accounts Committee has involved the use of a little carrot, and a fair bit of stick.
Twice in his opening statement, the new director general, Kevin Bakhurst talked about the “shameful” practices within the organisation and listed out the changes that would take place in future, including a new management team, governance reforms, including a register of interest.
But the focus quickly turned to one matter: the famous tripartite agreement between RTÉ, Renault and Ryan Tubridy and who knew what and when.
And it was clear that RTÉ was going to dispute some of the evidence given by Ryan Tubridy’s agent, Noel Kelly, on Tuesday.
Interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch’s opening statement to the committee set out to contradict much of the evidence heard from Mr Kelly and Tubridy on Tuesday.
When the RTÉ executives gave evidence, they made no reference to the emails and communications that passed between Noel Kelly and RTÉ in the early part of 2020. The impression given by witnesses was that RTÉ had resisted the side letter that was issued to Kelly, and it was done on foot of a verbal agreement between former director general, Dee Forbes and Kelly.
As Fianna Fáil TD Cormac Devlin put it, the testimony of the executives “gave the impression that the only person who knew about this was Dee Forbes. There was an illusion about a secret payment, a rogue Director General who went and negotiated the deal.”
The fly in the ointment was the email correspondence between Mr Kelly and former RTÉ financial controller Breda O’Keeffe that was disclosed on Tuesday, and which showed that the side letter seeking guarantees of payment for Mr Tubridy was in play.
Lynch told the committee today that the email reflected only a moment of time in a process, “a point in a negotiation”. He said that Mr Kelly later produced a draft of a guarantee letter was never signed. The important thing, he argued, was the key video meeting between Mr Kelly and Ms Forbes on May 7 2020 where she gave a verbal agreement to underwrite the payments for year two and year three.
However, it’s the only documentary evidence that the committee has in relation to the whole process.
Committee chair Brian Stanley said there was a bit of angels dancing on the head of a pin about some of the points being made by RTÉ; for instance, Lynch referred to Kelly’s evidence of never having met Forbes alone. He instanced a video call that took place in April 2022 involving only both of them.
He seemed to be on stronger ground about the length of the Renault agreement. On Tuesday., Kelly and Tubridy said they believed the agreement with Renault was for three years and Tubridy still owed the car manufacturer six live events for years two and three.
Lynch said it was clear the contract with Renault lasted only for a year and quarter. He based that on the evidence given by former commercial director Geraldine O’Leary. However, there is no documentary evidence to back up this assertion.
The fact of the matter was that Renault never paid Tubridy a bob in the end. RTÉ footed the bill for year one also by issuing a credit note of €75,000 to Renault.
So, it essentially footed the entire bill for the three years. It’s hard to be conclusive, but it might be seen by some as a vehicle (excuse the pun) conceived by somebody to ensure RTÉ's biggest star was paid what was considered a commensurate salary.
Lynch also contradicted the assertion made by Tubridy and Kelly that the negotiations for the Renault deal were separate to the negations for Tubridy’s salary. It’s a strong argument. The documents supplied by the presenter’s agent do suggest both the deal and the salary were very closely linked together.
Unlike Kelly and Tubridy, RTÉ has not supplied a documentary evidence to back some of its assertions as to who said what and when.
Verona Murphy, Cormac Devlin, Brian Stanley and Colm Burke have all made the point that the clear impression the RTÉ executive gave at its earlier hearing was that it was a solo run by Dee Forbes and few, if any, other people were in the know.
It is clear now that the state of knowledge of what was going on was known more widely.
The Wexford TD Murphy launched into some hard-hitting comments pointing out the lack of documentation from RTÉ to back up its assertions, compared to the 40-page dossier supplied by Kelly and Tubridy.
The references to Tubridy himself and his future were interesting.
Bakhurst told Alan Dillon that some of the hard-hitting criticisms made by Tubridy on Tuesday were justified. He also seemed to say that, right now, Tubridy is not being paid.
He said that a decision would have to be made about Tubridy’s future which might involve a meeting with him. He also said he noted that Tubridy had said he would return the €150,000 if he did not do the gigs and that would form part of the conversation.
‘A nonsensical Oireachtas Nuremberg trial’
Labour TD Alan Kelly reads out a tweet by Dave Fanning, who wrote about the committee hearings being a “nonsensical Oireachtas Nuremberg trial”.
The tweet has since been deleted.
Kelly asks “how is that appropriate?” Kevin Bakhurst says it was not appropriate.
The Labour TD also expresses frustration at the contradictory accounts being offered by different participants in the sage so far.
“It’s actually more confusing now than it ever was,” he says.
‘Genuinely, I can’t remember’
Jennifer Bray writes:
Fianna Fáil TD Paul McAuliffe is asking about those instructions not to put a name on the invoice.
Adrian Lynch says on the evidence he has seen, Geraldine O’Leary (former head of commercial) has told the truth throughout. When he asked her where the instruction came from to label the invoice as consultancy fees, she told him “genuinely, I can’t remember.”
On Tuesday, Ryan Tubridy’s agent Noel Kelly said that he got the instruction to label the invoice as consultancy fees from Geraldine O’Leary.
Kevin Bakhurst said he does not want to rush into a decision on Ryan Tubridy’s future “in the next hours or couple of days”.
Mr Bakhurst said some of the criticism directed at the broadcaster by Mr Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly was “justified”. He said he did not want to say there would be consequences, as it is not about punishment.
Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon is up now. He asks if Kevin Bakhurst has sought legal advice about seeking affidavits from people who have knowledge of this controversy.
“I haven’t as of yet, but it is something we could consider,” he said.
Dillon originally asked Mr Bakhurst who he believed should give further information. Mr Bakhurst said that when she is well enough, Dee Forbes should speak about certain things she would have knowledge of, such as verbal agreements.
Asked if anyone else in RTÉ should be paid more than the director general, who is on a salary of €250,000, Mr Bakhurst said if they have a greater worth to RTÉ than he does, then that should be considered.
“We need to keep downward pressure on the most highly paid presenter pay. That’s what I intend to do during my tenure. But we also need to attract the best talent,” he added.
Jack Horgan-Jones continues his analysis:
It’s not as jarring as the other key conflicts, but there’s also a contest between RTÉ and Tubridy/Kelly over the degree of notice given to team Tubridy of the 22nd June statement that made the controversy public. Kelly complained on Tuesday that there was just 30 minutes noticed before the statement went out – RTÉ chair Siún Ní Raghallaigh has pointed out that while the statement is one thing, excerpts from the Grant Thornton review were sent to interviewees beforehand – which would have included Noel Kelly.
Kevin Bakhurst said Renault have been the sponsors for The Late Late Show, and the contract is “up for renewal”.
Adrian Lynch said Renault’s sponsorship of The Late Late Show is “completely separate” to the sponsorship agreement between the brand and Ryan Tubridy.
Wexford TD Verona Murphy is questioning new director general Kevin Bakhurst. She reads out comments he made on a Newstalk interview where he said he was not sure RTÉ was fully to blame for this saga.
Mr Bakhurst said he stands over his comments 100 per cent.
“There were two sides to this agreement,” Mr Bakhurst tells her. Verona Murphy says RTÉ's side of the story “does not appear to be credible.”
Jack Horgan-Jones has some analysis on the meeting so far:
We’re about an hour into the hearing, and already there are key contradictions emerging between RTÉ's version of events and Ryan Tubridy’s. Indeed, you could argue RTÉ's version is in fact at odds with versions it has previously offered.
First of all, with Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly. There is a clear pushback against the contention that the Renault deal and the main contract negotiations with RTÉ were separate. In his opening statement, Adrian Lynch, the acting deputy director general, drove straight for this, saying that “the proposal to underwrite these payments was central to the contractual negotiations between RTÉ and Mr Tubridy. We believe that the substantive contract would not have been signed without the additional commercial agreement, or the underwriting”.
A second element from Tuesday was Tubridy and Kelly’s consistent assertion that they believed Renault were ultimately paying them. Again, Lynch flatly disputes that, saying the RTÉ contention was for the second two tranches NK Management pursued payment “despite it knowing that the Renault contract was no longer in place”.
Another vital matter is the interpretation and the emphasis put on Breda O’Keeffe’s email of February 2020. RTÉ is adamant that this email, which signalled an openness to underwriting the deal, is effectively irrelevant as it has no legal standing, and was merely part of a negotiation process where different elements appear and fade away over time. The problem is not, however, that it is being invoked as carrying some special legal weight – rather, it diminishes RTÉ's previous statements which suggested the pushback to the proposal was constant – including testimony offered by Ms O’Keeffe herself last week, which wasn’t challenged by RTÉ executives next to her at the time.
Three weeks into the crisis and six committee hearings later, it is still difficult to reconcile key parts of competing narratives by the protagonists in this story.
Asked about the impact the scandal has had on income, Kevin Bakhurst said the organisation has had conversations with agencies and commercial partners and “the feedback from them is they think we are dealing with this” and things are “business as usual.”
He says the June licence fee figures are broadly in line with those of the same time last year. He does acknowledge, however, that things could get “bumpy” and it is job to reassure the public of the reasons why they should pay the licence fee.
“I understand the anger out there. That's my job to address that,” he added.
Conor Mullen, RTÉ's commercial director, says the vast majority of RTÉ's business comes in from September and “we will see what happens then.”
John Brady asks if RTÉ has asked Ryan Tubridy to pay back the money for Renault appearances.
“The reason we have not is because there was a verbal agreement given to the agent that RTÉ would pay the money if there was no sponsorship in place,” Adrian Lynch said.
On Tuesday, Ryan Tubridy said he would pay back money if he does not make those public appearances.
In an interesting intervention, Kevin Bakhurst says “I think if we do have any discussions with Mr Tubridy going forward, I welcome his offer the other day and we will see what he does about it.”
Adrian Lynch said he wants to apologise to Renault, who, he said, have been “dragged into this. It’s outrageous in a way”.
John Brady now asks about Breda O’Keeffe’s former testimony that there was push back in RTÉ about the guarantee or underwriting of the Renault commercial deal.
“The emails clearly show there was intent to issue a side letter under writing these payments,” Mr Brady says.
Paula Mullooly says that February 2020 email was sent to her and the deputy director general Adrian Lynch also says he saw it. John Brady’s point is: you saw this email from February 2020, and you didn’t pull Breda O’Keeffe up about this, even though she said the underwriting wasn’t on the table when she left a month later?
In his defence, Mr Lynch says: “this is a point in a negotiation, it is not a contractually binding agreement.”
Sinn Féin TD John Brady says there is a continuous drip feed of information right until today. First, he asks about the emails presented by Noel Kelly and Ryan Tubridy. Why, he asks, were those emails around the underwriting not furnished to the committee?
RTÉ's director of legal Paula Mullooly says she has sent a legal file out for external review, and “we will come back to the committee with the additional documents we can share.” All of that information was available to Grant Thornton anyway, she says.
Asked if emails and correspondence and emails of past employees would be made available to those conducting reviews into the payment scandal, Kevin Bakhurst said his approach is he wants “absolute maximum” material to be available to those investigating, as is legally permissible.
Fianna Fáil TD Cormac Devlin is asking about the tripartite agreement between Tubridy, RTÉ and Renault. Devlin says initially it seemed that the only person who knew what was happening was Dee Forbes, but yet further information has emerged since then about other people in RTÉ who were aware of the deal. Mr Lynch says Ms Forbes was the one member of the executive team who gave the undertaking to underwrite the Renault deal.
Speaking about the potential return of Ryan Tubridy to the airwaves, director general Kevin Bakhurst said: “I need to deal with that properly. It will be a fair process. I will have discussions with some of my colleagues and staff and then potentially with Mr Tubridy. There will be a fair process around that.”
Mr Bakhurst said the broadcaster was in discussion with Mr Tubridy’s agent Noel Kelly about his salary, since he is no longer hosting The Late Late Show. As of this week, there is no salary being paid to Mr Tubridy, Mr Bakhurst said.
“We need to decide exactly what we’re paying him because he’s not doing his past duties any more,” he said.
Adrian Lynch says RTÉ was quite clear that Grant Thornton made no finding of wrongdoing on Ryan Tubridy’s part. Now Colm Burke is asking about former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe’s exit package. Mr Lynch says it is now being looked into.
Fine Gael’s Colm Burke has asked about Ryan Tubridy’s claim that he was only told that RTÉ was about to release its bombshell original information 30 minutes before its release.
Siún Ní Raghallaigh, chair of the RTÉ Board, said it was an independent report commissioned by the audit committee.
“It was about correcting the record in terms of the misstatement of figures. As you will read in the Grant Thornton, they did interview several people, including Mr Kelly.”
Mr Burke’s point is that RTÉ has been left exposed in relation to fair procedure to Mr Tubridy.
Asked by Sinn Féin’s Brian Stanley, chair of the committee, if “we are dancing on the head of a pin here” with regard to the side letter mentioned by Ms O’Keeffe in the February 2020 email, Mr Lynch said: “this was a negotiation that was ongoing and wasn’t completed. The agent was insistent there should be a side letter written by RTÉ.”
Adrian Lynch has read from new emails, saying he wants to clarify a significant point. Mr Lynch pointed to evidence from Noel Kelly saying he never met Dee Forbes alone.
Mr Lynch went back to see had any meetings happened alone. There was such a meeting on Monday April 5th 2022 between Dee Forbes and Mr Kelly, he says. This was at the time when Mr Kelly came looking for the money for Tubridy for the Renault deal. Lynch tells the committee that the Renault agreement was not a years long one.
“In that situation, Mr Kelly wrote to Ms Forbes on April 5th 2022 to say, Hi Dee, I hope you are well, it was good to catch up. If you can get Ger to send me the invoicing details.”
What Mr Lynch is saying here is: Who did Noel Kelly think he was sending the invoice to, given it was well known in RTÉ that the commercial agreement was not a long term one?
“It is quite clear Mr Kelly is not relying on this email of February, but on this verbal agreement [with Dee Forbes],” he added.
What is he saying effectively? Adrian Lynch, interim deputy director general, is denying that the explosive email of February 2020 presented by Noel Kelly is, in fact, not a contractual agreement. It’s worth reminding ourselves of the content of that email right now.
In that email to Kelly, former Chief Financial Officer Breda O’Keeffe wrote: “we can provide you with a side letter to underwrite this fee for the duration of the contract”.
Secondly, Lynch is saying that the proposal to underwrite the commercial deal was not widely known in RTÉ. Earlier this week, Ryan Tubridy told the committee: “Everyone in RTÉ who needed to know, knew.”
Thirdly Lynch is saying that the idea of underwriting the deal was actually key for Kelly and Tubridy.
Jennifer Bray writes:
Here are the Adrian Lynch’s three clarifications, standing out somewhat against Tubridy’s “seven untruths” last week, in full: “Firstly, regarding the email that was sent by the former CFO of RTÉ to NK Management on 20 February 2020, RTÉ does not accept that a contractual commitment was given to underwrite the commercial agreement in this email.
“Secondly, regarding the proposal to underwrite Mr Tubridy’s payments, RTÉ again states that the request was known within RTÉ, however, the commitment to do so was not widely known.” “RTÉ's position is that, until the verbal commitment given by the former Director General during the call on 7 May 2020, it had not agreed to underwrite the €75,000 payment per contract year.”
“Thirdly, in relation to some of the commentary made here on Tuesday last, RTÉ must clarify that the proposal to underwrite these payments was central to the contractual negotiations between RTÉ and Mr Tubridy. We believe that the substantive contract would not have been signed without the additional commercial agreement, or the underwriting.
“Moreover, we contend that the payments of €75,000 for year 2 and 3 of the commercial contract were pursued by NK Management, despite it knowing that the Renault contract was no longer in place.”
Adrian Lynch, the interim deputy director general, has the strongest opening statement of all the RTÉ executives, as he is directly contradicting some of the biggest claims made by Ryan Tubridy and Noel Kelly on Tuesday. As we referenced earlier on the live story, Mr Lynch says some of these comments need clarification.
Referencing the Renault commercial deal, Mr Bakhurst said that RTÉ should not be “brokering or facilitating commercial arrangements with its contractors.”
He says it is his view that the culture in RTÉ needs to change. He goes over the decisions he made on Monday morning, standing down the Executive Board, which has now been replaced by an Interim leadership team.
Then, he moves on to the role of agents, after questions to Noel Kelly earlier this week around the kind of power he wields in RTÉ. Bakhurst says that “negotiations with agents and the processes around certain decisions have highlighted gaps in our processes and procedures which have caused us considerable harm.”
Mr Bakhurst said it is “regrettable” his first meeting with the committee is under these circumstances.
He says the payments controversy has “created one of the most shameful and damaging episodes in the organisation’s history”.
He tells the committee there are still “gaps in evidence and missing personal testimonies that could irrefutably evidence all aspects of the chain of events, what informed or influenced those events, and why this occurred.”
“Anything that remains outstanding, we will try to address,” he told politicians.
Siún Ní Raghallaigh, chair of the RTÉ board, has kicked off the meeting by commending the new director general Kevin Bakhurst for his work to date since taking up the role on Monday.
She says yesterday evening, the Audit and Risk Committee and the wider Board considered the first instalment of another Grant Thornton Report. This was namely to independently validate that the remuneration figures for RTÉ's ten highest paid on-air presenters had been correctly stated publicly and properly accounted for by RTÉ during the period 2008 to 2022.
“Grant Thornton’s review confirms that RTÉ had correctly stated and properly accounted for these figures for the period 2010 to 2022, with the obvious exception of what have already restated. Work is ongoing for 2008 – 2009 given the historical nature of those records and the second instalment namely a review of the misstatement of the 2017 – 2019 figures for Mr Tubridy.”
Jennifer Bray reports in advance of the PAC meeting hearing:
The interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch’s opening statement to the PAC has landed, and he’s coming out fighting. Here are the main claims from the Tuesday’s hearing with Ryan Tubridy and Noel Kelly that RTÉ are fighting back on:
Firstly, in relation to the misstatements for 2020 and 2021, (which he says RTÉ takes full responsibility for) he homes in on that explosive email presented by Noel Kelly and Tubridy which appears to show a contractual commitment being given to underwrite the Renault commercial deal, a month before former chief financial officer Breda O’Keefe left her post.
Lynch does not accept this is a contractual commitment.
“Firstly, regarding the email that was sent by the former CFO of RTÉ to NK Management on 20 February 2020: RTÉ does not accept that a contractual commitment was given to underwrite the commercial agreement in this email.”
He also says the commitment to underwriting was not widely known.
“Secondly, regarding the proposal to underwrite Mr Tubridy’s payments: RTÉ again states that the request was known within RTÉ, however, the commitment to do so was not widely known. RTÉ's position is that, until the verbal commitment given by the former Director General during the call on 7 May 2020, it had not agreed to underwrite the €75,000 payment per contract year.”
Then he moves on to the claims that the underwriting were just in case the sponsor changed, and that Tubridy would not have walked away.
“Thirdly, in relation to some of the commentary made here on Tuesday last, RTÉ must clarify that the proposal to underwrite these payments was central to the contractual negotiations between RTÉ and Mr Tubridy. We believe that the substantive contract would not have been signed without the additional commercial agreement, or the underwriting.
Moreover, we contend that the payments of €75,000 for year two and three of the commercial contract were pursued by NK Management, despite it knowing that the Renault contract was no longer in place.”
Green Party TD Marc Ó Cathasaigh said his priority at Thursday’s PAC meeting will be getting answers from the new director general Kevin Bakhurst on how he proposes to establish a register of interests within the broadcaster, Vivienne Clarke reports.
“It’s very important as we know money buys influence, and I think it’s important to know who is taking money from whom, particularly when you’re talking about a public service broadcaster and you have to have that level of transparency, as we do for politicians, I think that’s appropriate and something I’d like more detail on,” he told RTÉ radio’s Morning Ireland.
Another issue to be addressed at the PAC today will be who was authorised to use the barter accounts, Mr Ó Cathasaigh said.
“There’s a lot of small expenditure as well and it’s not clear to me how that was paid for. So they’re not amounts that were invoiced. So I’ve asked previously whether there was any cards attached to the barter accounts and who was authorised to use them.”
Mr Ó Cathasaigh added that he was still not happy with the explanation around some invoices involved in the Renault agreement and the lack of clarity around the invoice for “consultancy fees.”
“I think what we have to do at this point is we have to start looking forward as well. We have to start looking past this. I know the external review is in place. I know the forensic accountants will be coming in to examine in detail all of the books that ought to be in short order,” he said.
“I think it might be time to step back and draw breath and particularly leave that external review and the forensic accountants do their work. And Mr Backhurst, we have to leave the new broom sweep clean.”
Mr Ó Cathasaigh reiterated that it was important former director general Dee Forbes appeared before the committee, as in her absence “a lot of people were happy to lay blame at her door. I think she will want to appear before us at some stage in the future to clarify matters from her perspective. We’ll be happy to give her the opportunity when her health allows”.
Mr Ó Cathasaigh said the PAC would also like to speak with Geraldine O’Leary, Breda O’Keefe and Jim Jennings who could probably answer some of those questions.
Asked about future funding of RTÉ, Mr Ó Cathasaigh said that definitely a culture change was needed.
“I do get queasy at the idea of politicians having a say in terms of public service funding. The fact of the matter is you have a job to do in terms of holding politicians to account. It’s very important that we have a secure means of funding public service broadcasting and that isn’t reliant on politicians’ yea or nay,” he said.
Vivienne Clarke reports:
Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon has said that the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) remains hopeful that former director general of RTÉ Dee Forbes will come before the committee “when she gets well” as she is a crucial witness “in this financial scandal.”
Mr Dillon told Newstalk Breakfast that evidence from Ms Forbes would go a long way towards restoring public trust in the national broadcaster.
There remained gaps in the evidence that had been presented to the PAC to date, there had been “conflicting stories” and “missing persons testimonies” that were crucial to understanding the chain of events and the decisions made, he said.
RTÉ representatives are expected to provide the review into the alleged payments, he said. “We’re still waiting for the 2017 to 2019 Grant Thornton review.”
RTÉ have had since last March “to get their house in order” and the PAC was frustrated at the delay in providing this report.
“I can’t really understand why it’s more complicated to publish an internal report that prompted the investigation. So it’s imperative that RTÉ furnish Public Accounts with details of this internal review immediately. We’re all clear in terms of how much more time they need. So today, we would be expecting that RTÉ would provide details around this,” he told the radio show.
Mr Dillon also expressed disappointment that former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe would not be attending today’s meeting as it was crucial that individuals who were at the centre of the issue provide assistance “in establishing the facts.”
More information was needed in the form of detailed documentation and evidence to support the claims by Noel Kelly and Ryan Tubridy into the extra €120,000 payment.
Mr Dillon questioned “the plausibility” of Mr Tubridy and Mr Kelly’s claims that the later payments were part of a separate commercial arrangement with Renault.
The Public Accounts Committee was seeking accountability “at all levels to establish a clear framework of decision making that allowed for this secret payment to happen.”
However, he said it was very difficult to make a conclusive assessment without hearing from the former DG Dee Forbes.
“I think she is crucial to providing a comprehensive examination of the evidence to clarify the arrangement and its compliance with regulation,” he said.
“She is a crucial witness to this financial scandal that has rocked RTÉ. And certainly she and her evidence will go a long way to rebuild trust in our national broadcaster.”
There has been a lot happening this week on this story. On Monday, Kevin Bakhurst took up the role of director general, stood down the executive board and established a “temporary leadership team”.
On Tuesday, Ryan Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly appeared before two Oireachtas committees, where they challenged “untruths” and described the recent crisis as a “mess of RTÉ's own making”.
On Wednesday, RTÉ and the GAA, as well as other sporting and broadcasting bodies, appeared before the media committee where they were quizzed on the GAAGo controversy.
On Thursday, the PAC will continue their investigation into the use of funds at the broadcaster.
Here is what it says in the papers in relation to this story:
The Irish Times’ front page story reports RTÉ is to challenge the contributions Mr Tubridy and Mr Kelly made to politicians earlier this week.
The Irish Examiner’s story has led with the results of a second Grant Thornton report which found no other RTÉ stars benefited from additional commercial payments.
The Irish Independent’s lead story is on the feelings of RTÉ staff members, who, the newspaper reports, are “split” on Tubridy returning to the airwaves.
Good morning, it’s Shauna Bowers here looking after today’s live story on RTÉ. It will be another busy day for the broadcaster, with executives due to appear before the Dáil Public Accounts Committee from 9.30am.
Appearing before politicians will be the new director general Kevin Bakhurst, who is making his Oireachtas committee debut since taking up the role at the beginning of this week. Joining him will be deputy director general Adrian Lynch, director of legal affairs Paula Mullooly, Richard Collins and Conor Mullen.
