The old man is in his absolute element.
“What do you call those people,” he goes, “who want things to stay the same forever?”
I’m there, “I don’t know – the rich?”
“Conservatives!” he goes. “Yes, that’s it! I’m becoming more and more conservative with age!”
‘When you say co-ed, do you mean there’s going to be, like, girls going to Castlerock?’
‘A co-educational school has never won the Leinster Schools Senior Cup!’
‘Goys from Belvo, Gonzaga and Blackrock are mixing like there’s no difference between them’
‘You lifted the Leinster Schools Senior Cup – does that mean nothing to you now’
Yeah, no, we're sitting in the reception area of the RTÉ radio centre. The dude is about to go on Drivetime to talk about the issue that has split the country in literally two – namely, Castlerock College going co-ed from September.
I’m there, “I’m trying to imagine what Fr Fehily would say if he was alive today.”
‘Now, a man can be cancelled – quote-unquote – for expressing such views! Which is why you have to be a bit cleverer in how you say things! Watch and learn, Ross!’
“What, old Denis?” the old man goes. “He’d be devastated,” and then he sort of, like, chuckles to himself. “You know, he used to say, ‘When we pray, we say Amen – we don’t say Awomen!’”
“Yeah, no, I remember that.”
“Not that he was a sexist – or anything like it!”
“God, no.”
“He just believed in the inherent superiority of men over women in all things! And he knew that admitting girls to Castlerock College would stunt the educational growth of the boys! You see, girls learn differently to boys – and when I say differently, I mean more slowly and not as well.”
“Are you going to say all of that to Sarah McInerney?”
"Good lord, no! It's not like the good old days, Kicker, when a man could speak his mind on such matters and expect nothing in return but a bit of intellectual cut and thrust with the likes of Nell McCafferty or Mary Kenny! Now, a man can be cancelled – quote-unquote – for expressing such views! Which is why you have to be a bit cleverer in how you say things! Watch and learn, Ross!"
I’m there, “Er, do you have any notes?”
He seems to find this for some reason hilarious.
He’s like, “Notes are for the feeble-minded, Kicker!”
The sliding door opens and a dude steps out into the reception room.
“Charles O’Carroll-Kelly?” he goes. “Come this way, please.”
Into the studio he leads us. I sit outside in the sort of, like, control room while the old man goes in to talk to – like I said – the famous Sarah McInerney. I hear him go, “You do wonderful work, Sarah!” obviously sucking up to her. “My wife and I very much enjoy listening to you!” before the door closes.
Anyway, Sarah McInerney introduces the item by going, “Now, the issue of co-education is back in the news this week following the announcement by one of the country’s largest schools, Castlerock College, that it plans to admit girls to the school from September. Joining me in the studio is a Castlerock past pupil who is very much against the move, the leader of New Republic, Charles O’Carroll-Kelly.”
The old man goes, “Alumnus!”
Sarah McInerney’s like, “Excuse me?”
He’s there, “Non-fee-paying schools have past pupils, Sarah! Private schools have alumni! It’s an important distinction – just to correct the record!”
She doesn’t bat an eyelid. She just goes, “Charles, you’re against the idea of boys and girls sharing the same classroom – can you explain to our listeners why?”
“Well,” he goes, “firstly, I’d like to say thank you for inviting me on the programme! My opposition to this move has been portrayed in some quarters as misogynistic, which of course could not be further from the truth! Nobody enjoys the company of women more than Charles O’Carroll-Kelly! My concern is – and always has been – focused on the educational side of things! There is evidence – conclusive evidence – that students in same-sex schools outperform students in mixed schools when it comes to exams!”
Sarah’s like, “What evidence?”
“What, you want me to quote you some report or other, do you?”
“Well, you said there was evidence – conclusive evidence, you said – and I wondered what this evidence consisted of. Because I have two reports here in front of me, both of which suggest that students coming from a co-educational background are more successful in post-secondary education and in the workforce.”
It’s suddenly obvious that the dude is out of his depth here. I’m trying to catch his eye through the window to tell him to, I don’t know, fake a hort attack or something.
He goes, "I might suggest that I am the counter-argument to these so-called reports of yours! I would say that I am, by most objective standards, a successful man! I can honestly say that I never had a conversation with a member of the opposite sex until I was 18 years old – unless it was my mother or one of her cleaners! And yet I have no issues with women! If anything, I think there should be more of them! Quod erat demonstradum!"
‘I’d been rear-ended by a woman leaving the Kilternan Sports Hotel and my insurance company was holding <i>me</i> responsible! The bloody nerve of these people!’
“Charles, you say that you have no issues with women, but isn’t it true that going to Castlerock College is just one of many things that you think females shouldn’t be allowed to do?”
“I’m not sure I follow you, Sarah!”
“Like vote, for instance.”
“Vote?”
“You wrote a letter to The Irish Times in May of 1982, saying that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote – because of their smaller brains.”
“They were different times, Sarah! It was perfectly acceptable to express such views in, em – what date did you say it was?”
I’m, like, furiously gesturing to him, telling him to go down – take a dive.
“In September of 1974,” Sarah McInerney goes, “you wrote to The Irish Times to say that women shouldn’t be allowed to drive motorcars”.
He's there, "I'd been rear-ended by a woman leaving the Kilternan Sports Hotel and my insurance company was holding me responsible! The bloody nerve of these people!"
“In 1993, you wrote to The Irish Times to say that-.”
“Someone’s been doing their research! This is all very thorough, if you don’t mind my saying!”
“-you wrote to The Irish Times to say that women shouldn’t be allowed to handle money.”
“On a point of order, I said they shouldn’t be allowed to work as bank tellers! The interest in my current account was miscalculated and-! How many more of these bloody letters are there?”
“Somewhere in the region of 70.”
The old man suddenly stands up. He goes, “This is a bloody well set-up!” and he tears open the door of the studio. “You, young lady, will be hearing from my solicitor! Mister Hennessy! Coghlan! O’Hara! And I won’t even tell you where he went to school!”
