Mahon Tribunal: A former assistant Garda Commissioner has denied there was a "cover-up" in the 1989 investigation of planning corruption.
However, Mr Hugh Sreenan conceded that part of the reason Mr Liam Lawlor was not interviewed during the Garda investigation was because he was a sitting politician, and there would have been "a scandal".
Mr Sreenan, who has since retired, was asked repeatedly why Mr Lawlor was not interviewed when other people who figured in allegations made by developer Mr Tom Gilmartin and others were.
In his replies, the witness referred to "the climate of the time", and the fact that there was "a lot of concern" about the stories that were circulating.
He pointed out that Mr Gilmartin had made allegations but had declined to substantiate them by making a statement. But asked by Mr Lawlor whether he believed Mr Gilmartin's allegations, Mr Sreenan said he did.
It emerged yesterday that the six-person Garda investigation, which reported in May 1990 that Mr Lawlor "emerges with his good name unscathed," never discovered that the TD was receiving monthly consultancy payments from Mr Gilmartin's business partners, Arlington Securities.
Judge Mary Faherty said Mr Sreenan had been given information that Arlington was paying Mr Lawlor £3,500 a month. Mr Gilmartin was effectively alleging a sitting TD was getting "blackmail money", yet Mr Lawlor was not questioned.
She said gardaí seemed to have "discriminated" between different people in relation to whom they interviewed. Mr Sreenan denied this, saying it was a question of getting to "the root of the matter".
Judge Gerald Keys said the reason Mr Lawlor was not interviewed was that he was a sitting politician and there would have been a scandal. The witness agreed this was "part of it".
"Why didn't you say that the first time?" Judge Keys responded.
He referred to the fact that a Dublin garage owner, Mr Gerard Brady, had been interviewed, and said this was because Mr Brady was not a high-ranking person.
Mr Lawlor had not been interviewed, and while former assistant Dublin City and County manager George Redmond was interviewed, this fact was not mentioned in the final report. Didn't that indicate that there was a cover-up?
Mr Sreenan said there was "absolutely no cover-up".
Judge Keys then asked if people were "afraid" to make statements at the time. Mr Sreenan said he presumed they were. He couldn't say what was in their minds. He agreed "the climate" might have been a factor.
Judge Alan Mahon said the tribunal was "puzzled" as to why everyone who figured in the allegations had not been interviewed.
Earlier, Mr Sreenan explained he didn't have a "hands-on role" in the Garda investigation and was not involved in preparing the report. However, he did have three phone conversations with Mr Gilmartin in March 1989, in which he tried to persuade the Luton-based developer to make a statement.
He made "scribbled notes" of these conversations, the typed-up version of which have been furnished to the tribunal.
Mr Sreenan agreed he had been given the names of Mr Lawlor, Redmond and Cllr Finbarr Hanrahan as figuring in the allegations, but he did not put these to Mr Gilmartin. "I didn't want to get involved in an argument with him. I just wanted to coax him into make a statement." He offered to travel to Britain to take a statement from Mr Gilmartin, as this would enable the gardaí to get the investigation under way. Mr Gilmartin said he was coming to Dublin, and would ring, but no contact was made.
Mr Gilmartin was reluctant to make a statement, saying he didn't want to get involved in a libel trial. He said he was told by people in certain political quarters not to make a statement as they didn't want a scandal.
Mr Sreenan did travel to London in November 1989 to interview two executives of Arlington Securities, who told him - wrongly - they hadn't given any money to Mr Lawlor. He agreed that if the true facts had been known, they might have influenced the final report's conclusions on Mr Lawlor.
Mr Gilmartin has told the tribunal that, immediately after a meeting with Ministers in the Dáil in 1989, he was approached by an unidentified man who demanded he pay £5 million into an offshore account.
However, the then city manager, Mr Frank Feely, and Mr Sreenan's notes of his conversations with the developer separately record Mr Gilmartin saying Mr Lawlor was the person who sought £5 million. Mr Gilmartin has vehemently denied ever saying this.
Yesterday, Mr Sreenan agreed that Mr Gilmartin had not mentioned Mr Lawlor's name to him in the context of the £5 million. He agreed that he had put what Mr Gilmartin told him together with other information provided a few days earlier by Mr Feely.
