First testy exchange of the night
So the subject has moved on to finance and the economy. Both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael set out their stall.
Then it was Mary Lou McDonald’s turn. She spoke about investing the Apple money in infrastructure and once-off spending. She then directs a barb at Simon Harris and the Government over scoliosis.
McDonald: “I think this faux concern for the future of children needs to be called out.”
Harris: “How dare you. How dare you accuse anyone of faux concern for children. Who do you think you are, that you have some sort of monopoly on compassion? There’s no faux concern. I don’t know any member of the Dáil in any political party, or any candidate running for the Dáíl who has faux concern for children. So perhaps we could have a respectful debate.”
McDonald: “Nobody has a monopoly on compassion. I agree with you, but here’s the thing, you and Micheál Martin, have had a monopoly on power for a very long time.”
There is then a three-way row between the big leaders on their economic policies with both Harris and Martin criticising the fact that Sinn Féin has yet to publish its manifesto. They also claim that the €15 billion that Sinn Féin intends to set aside is not enough. Both claim that if there are shocks that happen as a result of the Trump presidency, that will leave Ireland exposed.
McDonald denies this.
The big three are dominating the debate, especially Harris and McDonald.
Both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael rule out Sinn Féin
Straight off the bat, both Micheál Martin and Simon Harris are asked about government-formation and rule out coalition with Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil on the basis of economic policies.
Asked if Sinn Féin has a credible path to government if the two other large parties are ruling it out, Mary Lou McDonald makes an argument that “after a century of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, now is the time for change”.
So where do the parties stand on coalition?
So Katie Hannon has been going to each of the candidates asking them whose dance cards they will mark. Ivana Bacik of Labour says that her party has a significant policy differences with the bigger parties and wants to form a coalition of the centre-left.
“The first thing we weill do is talk to centre left platforms,” she says.
“We will only talk to the three biggest parties from that platform.”
Cian O’Callaghan, slightly nervous, has his first innings.
As Pat Leahy remarked to me, he is saying something slightly different, saying simply that the SocDems will talk to all parties.
In a spirited contribution, Peadar Tóibín rules out Fine Gael and the Greens.
Richard Boyd-Barrett and Joan Collins rule out all non-left parties.
And it’s Showtime...
So it has all started. Katie Hannon introduced the Upfront debate. She is wearing a burgundy suit. A big moment for Cian O’Callaghan who is deputising for Holly Cairns. All of the male guests are dressed in sober dark suits with the exception of Richard Boyd-Barrett. Peadar Tóibín has the most colourful tie. Mary Lou McDonald is wearing a green top and Ivana Bacik a pink top.
The first question relates to John McGahon.
Simon Harris concedes that his description of the assault as a “scuffle” was not correct, as he had not seen the video at the time.
Harris: “If I had Katie, I wouldn’t have used that phrase at all.”
Katie Hannon: “But you backed him without seeing the evidence?”
Harris: “I had backed him on the basis of what happened in a court. It is important to say this because there’s been a lot of accusations thrown here today. If John McGahon had been criminally convicted in a court in this country, he would not be a candidate for my party.”
Ten leaders, Ten Voices, Tenterhooks
Thanks so much to Olivia Kelly and to Jack Horgan-Jones for all the work they have done on the Live coverage today. I’m Harry McGee and I will be your guide through the minefield that is the ten-way leaders’ debate on RTÉ 1.
It’s going to be the first big set-piece moment of this year and presenter Katie Hannon will have her work cut out trying to maintain order with so many leaders on stage.
The issues will be obvious. Several of the leaders arriving at the RTÉ studios in Donnybrook have already given strong indications of the direction of travel. It’s clear that the suitability of Fine Gael senator John McGahon as a candidate will be brought up, as rivals try to challenge that party’s “law and order” credentials.
Our own Jennifer Bray is in RTÉ and reported on Simon Harris’ arrival. When pressed about criticism from Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald about McGahon’s continuing candidacy, Simon Harris responded with a flinty “her press officer is in prison tonight” for child sexual offences.
That might give a preview of the kind of exchanges we might expect.
Micheál Martin also returned to a theme he has mentioned more than once in recent days: the fact that Sinn Féin will not publish its manifesto until tomorrow.
The other thing that’s interesting is that the candidates place in the line-up was decided by the drawing of lots. The three Coalition leaders are slap in the middle and McDonald finds herself right on the outside lane. I’m sure of one thing though, she is not going to be peripheral to the debate.
Countdown to debate is on
Party leaders are arriving in Donnybrook for tonight’s televised debate, which starts at 9.35pm on RTÉ 1.
Taoiseach Simon Harris was in feisty form on the way into studio, saying issues in relation to Fine Gael candidate John McGahon have been dealt with. Pressed by reporters about criticism from Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald, the Taoiseach said “her press officer is in prison tonight” for child sexual offences, while “John McGahon was found not guilty by a criminal court”.
Former Sinn Féin press officer Michael McMonagle, who pleaded guilty to 15 child sexual offences charges in September, was sentenced earlier this month to 18 months, nine of which are to be spent in prison.
Speaking to reporters on his way into the RTÉ studios, Tánaiste Micheál Martin said it’s regrettable that all political parties have not yet published their manifestos ahead of the first debate.
Dublin debate gets a bit ‘shouty’
An RTÉ Drivetime election debate this evening focusing on the Dublin central constituency provided a potential taster for tonight’s mammoth Primetime TV leaders’ debate. In what was probably a more digestible offering, Drivetime broke the debate into two half-hour chunks.
The first involved sitting TD’s Paschal Donohoe of Fine Gael and Gary Gannon of the Social Democrats, former MEP Clare Daly of Independents 4 Change, and Sinn Féin city councillor Janice Boylan.
It started with a decent ding-dong on housing with Donohoe diving straight in to the somewhat murky waters of O’Devaney Gardens, where it emerged in recent days that cost-rental homes intended for low and middle income workers could cost almost €1,500 for a one-bed and close to €1,900 for a three-bed apartment.
Donohoe cited this flagship project in his constituency as an area where the Government was making progress on housing only for presenter Sarah McInerney to point out the not so affordable rental costs.
Donohoe said he accepted that “for many it’s still not affordable enough” but it was he said “a discount of up to 25 per cent of what is the market rent in an area like Stoneybatter”.
Boylan, a former resident of the old O’Devaney Gardens flat complex said she didn’t know “what planet” Donohoe was on using the word affordable in the context of rents she described as “absolutely crippling”.
The two clashed again when McInerney asked Donohoe his views on the selection of Senator John McGahon to run in Louth despite a court ordering him to pay €39,000 arising from a violent incident outside a pub.
Donohoe said he was “appalled by any act of violence” but noted the issue had been through the courts and said McGahon had not only been found not guilty but “appears very hugely contrite for what has happened and I’ve seen how hard he does work for the people”.
Boylan was not so sure Donohoe would be so sympathetic if a Sinn Féin candidate was involved. Fine Gael “would be hauling us over the coals” she said.
The second debate involved Fianna Fáil Senator Mary Fitzpatrick, Green Party TD Neasa Hourigan, Labour Senator Maire Sherlock and Independent city councillor Malachy Steenson.
Hourigan and Sherlock found much to agree on in their policies of housing, and slightly less accord with Fitzpatrick. All three were however united in their opposition to Steenson, particularly when he said that taxing owners of vacant properties was not a solution to the housing crisis. What these property owners chose to do with their buildings was “a matter for themselves”, he said, and they were paying property tax on those buildings already.
The debate came near to collapse when McInerney introduced the issue of immigration, which had followed very hot on the heels of the issue of crime and safety in the city. No coherent policies could be deciphered from the jumble of voices. McInerney several times asked Steenson to “stop shouting” or stop “speaking over people”, but really, they were all at it.
Fine Gael politician John McGahon was not exactly a household name in the weeks leading up the general election. But that has changed in recent days with a video widely circulating showing the Louth election candidate in a serious altercation in Dundalk more than six years ago.
What exactly happened between McGahon and Castleblayney farmer Breen White outside the Rum House pub in the early hours of June 15th, 2018?
Harry McGee has the full story.
Leaders have their starting positions
In horse racing, the draw can make a big difference to your chances of success. Will it play a part in tonight’s leaders’ debate?
Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has been placed 10th the podium of leaders, with Taoiseach Simon Harris and Tánaiste Micheál Martin drawn 4th and 5th, meaning they will be centre screen for tonight’s RTÉ show. The body language between the two men will be interesting after some intense sniping between their two parties in the last 24 hours.
Debate host Katie Hannon did a draw on Instagram “in the interest of fairness and transparency” to determine how leaders would line up on the podium. Here are the runners and riders for the “9.35 at Montrose”:
1. Joan Collins, Independents 4 Change
2. Cian O’Callaghan, Social Democrats
3. Michael Collins, Independent Ireland
4. Micheál Martin (Fianna Fáil)
5. Simon Harris (Fine Gael)
6. Roderic O’Gorman (Green Party)
7. Peadar Tóibín (Aontú)
8. Ivana Bacik (Labour Party)
9. Richard Boyd Barrett (People Before Profit-Solidarity)
10. Mary Lou McDonald (Sinn Féin)
Fianna Fáil’s junior minister for justice James Browne remains under scrutiny over comments he made about how the Department of Justice operated under senior minister Helen McEntee.
Tánaiste Micheál Martin was out today defending his party colleague, saying his comments had been “completely misinterpreted”.
Talking to Newstalk Radio last Friday, Browne said he had done 50 per cent of all the legislation in the Department of Justice during the last Government.
“The junior shouldn’t really be carrying that level of weight in a department,” he said.
Asked if he had to carry too much of the burden for Fine Gael Minister McEntee, he responded: “No, but you’ve had the Taoiseach who has been in there for six months and so has Minister Heather Humphreys as well.”
Both Taoiseach Simon Harris and Humphreys assumed the justice brief during McEntee’s maternity leave.
Fianna Fáil stress Browne was not questioning McEntee’s entitlement to leave, with Martin saying his party’s “position on justice is a policy-based one not personal”.
He said: “James’s point is, that there’s huge workload in justice that needs to be divided up into two separate departments and secretary generals.”
- Cormac McQuinn has the full story here.
Paschal Donohoe, who is running in the same constituency as gangland figure Gerard Hutch, was asked about his claim that he had been working for the people of the north inner city for 40 years. Responding, Donohoe said: ”Well it is news to me if he has been.
“What I instead have seen is a constituency that is full of strong and decent communities of people who work so hard to get a better life for themselves, for their families.
“I have also seen the awful harm that has been caused by drugs, that has been caused by organised crime, sometimes to the most vulnerable within our communities.
“And what I am going to be making the case for is for putting those days behind us, for the investment that is there, for the way we are working together for a better future, and for the incredible decency and hard work of all of the people of Dublin central, and for the efforts they are making and for the efforts that I want to support.”
Meanwhile, Hutch has been working on his social media presence ahead of the election:
McEntee responds to O’Dea criticism
One of the standout moments of the weekend was Willie O’Dea’s social media attack on Minister for Justice Helen McEntee.
Barry Roche reports that McEntee has now responded. She told reporters she will “stand on my record” of the “largest ever expansion of our courts”, a similar expansion of the prison service and her focus on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, including the creation of a new agency to tackle what she said was an “epidemic” in the area.
“It’s also a record that half a billion more euro has gone into our gardaí. That’s more money to support the gardaí on the beat, on the ground doing the work that they do, while also equipping them with what they need.”
She also said her record showed she would “always stand up to the thugs and criminals”, pointing to a new fund taking money from criminals and putting it into communities, and her conclusion of extradition treaty talks with the UAE.
“That’s my record that I’m standing on and I’m very happy to do so.” Of the wider sniping between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, McEntee said: “The vast majority of people will see that as a coalition Government we have actually worked really well together. We have, of course, have had our differences but I think we have worked really well together. This is an election, every single party is putting forward their ideas.”
During a canvass in the English Market in Cork City centre with local candidates, McEntee also said John McGahon would be on the ticket in Louth and it was “very much for the people of Louth to decide who they want to represent him”.
Saying he had been acquitted by a jury in a criminal trial, she said McGahon “is somebody that I have worked with, somebody that I feel has done a huge amount of work on the ground ... He has expressed remorse not just recently but in the past on the incident itself”.
She said: “We are a party that will always uphold the law and what we know is that Senator McGahon went through a criminal jury trial, and they were the people that saw and heard all of the evidence, all of the facts that came before them and they found him not guilty.”
Sinn Féin were out today launching a six-point plan to tackle waste in Government spending. The party’s finance spokesman, Pearse Doherty, appeared alongside the former Public Accounts Committee chair Maireád Farrell in Dublin today, also taking questions on issues of the day, including the John McGahon controversy.
- On that story, Doherty said he was surprised Fine Gael had carried out no disciplinary activities relating to Mr McGahon arising from the incident. “Let’s be clear, that person would not be candidate for Sinn Féin,” he said.
“I don’t think Simon Harris can run from this issue, or indeed Helen McEntee, and pretend this is something that you can just brush under the carpet,” he said. Mr Doherty said the violence involved in the incident set it apart, and that there “has to be standards within political parties”.
Asked if he believed Simon Harris should meet Breen White, the man who sued Mr McGahon for damages, he said that he should consider hearing from him.
- On Fianna Fáil’s attack on his party’s housing manifesto, Doherty said Darragh O’Brien “really likes talking about SInn Féin because he has nothing to talk about in relation to himself”. He said the government’s track record was record homelessness, house prices that were never higher, and how rents are “completely out of control” and dwindling home ownership rates.
- Sinn Féin said a “new broom” is needed in the public finances, with Farrell committing to reform and expand the Freedom of Information Act, with the system for accessing government information by the public now in need of a major overhaul. The powers of the comptroller and auditor general, and the ombudsman, would be expanded and that the latter body would be given extra powers, she said, with the party also pledging an audit of government waste
- Doherty was dismissive of Fine Gael plans to reconstitute the Office of Public Works, which oversaw the construction of the bike shelter, saying that “shifting the problem around isn’t the issue”
- Sinn Féin dismissed suggestions it was delaying the launch of its manifesto, due tomorrow, until after tonight’s 10-way leader debate on RTÉ. Doherty said that at this stage in the last general election campaign, a lot of the media had written off Sinn Féin, promising the party would work “might and mane” right up to polls closing.
In a statement released on Monday afternoon, Farrell also targeted Fine Gael’s proposals on VAT:
“It’s laughable that Fine Gael’s rushed back-of-the envelope attempt to cover their tracks’ having only last week rejected Sinn Féin’s proposal to reduce VAT for the hospitality sector – excluding hotels – to 9%.”
Green Party leader Roderic O’Gorman was asked about the controversy around John McGahon, political correspondent Jennifer Bray reports. He said: “Ultimately, it’s up to the individuals of Louth to decide if the seriousness of the assault is disqualifying for Senator McGahon.”
Our parliamentary correspondent Marie O’Halloran has spotted that polling station signs are already up at Ballsbridge College in south Dublin.
Sinéad Gibney, Social Democrats election candidate in Dún Laoghaire Rathdown has said she would not be comfortable if her party was putting forward a candidate who had been involved in a controversial street fight.
Ms Gibney was responding to a question about Fine Gael election candidate in Louth, John McGahon who was involved in a fight outside a pub in Dundalk in 2018.
Mr McGahon was found not guilty in a criminal trail arising from the incident, which happened outside a pub in Dundalk, but Breen White, a farmer from Castleblaney, Co Monaghan, sued him in the High Court for assault and battery.
Mr McGahon denied the claims and said he was assaulted and acted in self-defence. The jury in the High Court case found that Mr White had been assaulted and awarded a total of €60,000 including €10,000 for aggravated damages. Mr Justice Alexander Owens gave a decree for €39,000 against Mr McGahon.
Ms Gibney who is Social Democrats disability advocate was speaking as she launched the party’s disability policy in Dublin, at lunchtime.
However, while Ms Gibney replied “no” to the question as to whether she would be comfortable having a Social Democrats candidate who was involved in such a controversy, she declined to respond to whether Mr McGahon should make a personal statement about the incident.
“I’m just here to talk about our policies today,” she said.
- Tim O’Brien reports
The Louth returning officer has published the list of candidates for that 5 seat constituency - with Fine Gael’s John McGahon remaining on the ballot paper.
It’s the halfway point in the general election campaign with all parties busy outlining their policy positions if elected to power on November 29th. Brace yourselves for the first televised leaders’ debate of the general election at 9.30pm tonight on RTÉ. Simon Harris, Micheál Martin and Mary Lou McDonald will be joined by Labour leader Ivana Bacik, Richard Boyd-Barrett of People Before Profit, Green leader Roderic O’Gorman, Michael Collins of Independent Ireland, Cian O’Callaghan of the Social Democrats (subbing for Holly Cairns) Peadar Toibín of Aontú and Joan Collins of Right to Change.
Holly Cairns - who is due to give birth to her first child in a matter of days - will not be taking part in tonight’s leaders’ debate for reasons that don’t really need explaining. A SocDems spokeswoman said: “Social Democrats leader Holly Cairns is due to give birth in a matter of days, and is unable to travel to Dublin from her home in Cork South West, so Deputy Leader Cian O’Callaghan is standing in this evening.”
Hot takes ahead of debate - today’s analysis from The Irish Times
Read up on the best of today’s paper and online:
- Today’s lead story
- Our early morning mailout
- Miriam Lord on the campaign trail
- Analysis by political editor Pat Leahy
- Yet more analysis by Pat...
- The voters’ view from the Meath Gaeltacht
- And what football fans have to say
The Green Party is out later on talking about its work/life balance event. The most eye-catching element here is a four-day work week. Sadly, on closer inspection, what they’re proposing is a Citizens Assembly on the issue - so often the graveyard of the catchy political aspiration.
The weather forecast, as Brian Kerr might say, is malojin. Wrap up, canvassers - and remember people are trying to keep the heat in when you’re on the doors.
Labour is today criticisng Fine Gael’s ‘Acorn’ policy, announced over the weekend, which would see €1,000 put in a savings account for every child born in Ireland. In a release, the party’s health spokesman Duncan Smith says: “Another 4,500 are trapped in homelessness and need a home, so I’d ask Fine Gael what address should they put on their new bank account?”
Micheál Martin was also asked about the John McGahon controversy on a podcast hosted by Newstalk’s Seán Defoe. He said: “I think there is a big problem there, if I’m honest,” going on to describe the injuries as “shocking” and the nature of the incident as “very aggressive”.
“I think there are issues there, if I’m honest,” he says, but stops short of saying the Senator should be deselected, saying it is a matter for Fine Gael.
“It clearly wasn’t a scuffle,” he says - ‘scuffle’ being the word Simon Harris used to describe it after the conclusion of the civil case which saw McGahon landed with €39,000 in damages.
Listen to Seán’s full podcast here
Fianna Fáil leader Martin on John McGahon, Sinn Féin and his party’s credibility
Micheál Martin has done a very extensive interview on the Claire Byrne show on RTÉ Radio 1 this morning.
Mr Martin is asked about the Sunday Times’s John McGahon story, and he indicates he would work with the Louth based senator if elected but adds that he doesn’t think Fianna Fáil would put someone forward for election in those circumstances. He says a video of the incident is “quite shocking” and that he was “somewhat surprised” that Simon Harris is backing McGahon after it emerged.
Mr McGahon was found not guilty after a criminal assauly trial but afterwards faced a civil action taken by Breen White, the other party involved in the incident. Mr White was awarded €39,000 after he sued the Louth Fine Gael candidate for assault and battery.
Mr McGahon comes from a storied Louth Fine Gael family. His father was a councillor in Dundalk and his uncle, Brendan McGahon, was a TD for the constituency for twenty years. He was successfully elected to Louth County Council in 2014 and 2019, but failed to secure a Dáil seat in 2020. He has been strongly tipped to retain the seat in the county being vacated by retiring TD Fergus O’Dowd.
[ Fine Gael stands by Senator after assault victim questions election candidacyOpens in new window ]
Asked what he would do in the circumstances, Martin says: “I don’t think he would have been a candidate.”
“There is a victim here… striking to the head is very, very dangerous. Thankfully here it didn’t lead to worse consequences, but it could have.”
Some other key points he was asked about include:
On spending promises, he says he would maintain spending on housing no matter what - but if there was an economic shock, other things currently promised in the manifesto would be up for debate.
Martin says “the biggest threat to us is external”, rejecting Byrne’s assertion that we are planning spending like we were an OPEC ( Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) country in the 1970s.
Economic credibility is a big thread to this interview, with Martin emphasising that Michael McGrath was the finance minister who legislated to put money aside for a rainy day - pivoting to attack Sinn Féin when questioned on the matter, who he says will spend the surplus.
Invited to take a pop at Simon Harris’ so-called “Acorn Fund”, he says he is not “overly exercised by it”, but indicates the capacity for better-off families to add to the pile does raise equality issues. He says funding it cannot get in the way of Fianna Fáil priorities like investing in childcare and the pupil-teacher ratio. “It’s not something we’d die in a ditch on”.
Asked about the constant crossfire between government parties, Martin disowns Willie O’Dea’s suggestion Helen McEntee is the worst ever justice minister, emphasising that it’s the Limerick City TD’s view only. “What went on last week I had no time for,” he said of the scrapping, but argues that there are legitimate policy differences that should be debated in a respectful way. However, he says “crime is an issue,” adding that people do not feel as safe now in cities and towns.
Pushed on whether the bickering between Fianna Fáil and FIne Gael could backfire come polling day, he says that the fundamental divide in the Dáil is on the economic model, characterising Sinn Féin and the far left as diverging from the rest of the parties. Martin argues that centrist parties can have policy differences, but that there is a “strong centre” to Irish politics.
Is Fianna Fáil “cosying up” to Labour and the Independents with an eye on government formation, Martin is asked? He says he is “slow to be cosying up to anyone” and wants to maximise the FF vote. And again, he pivots to attack Sinn Féin, which he says would delay and damage progress on housing and risk the economic model of the State. The strategy here ain’t subtle.
“Can we talk about Fianna Fáil, and not Sinn Féin?” says Claire.
Martin is defending the Help to Buy scheme, rejecting the idea it is inflationary, and arguing it has been an enormous assistance to first time buyers. Shockingly, he ends up criticising the left and the “main opposition party” saying their policies would scare off investment into Irish housing.
He goes on to warn that if the opposition get their way, planning will be slower and houses more expensive.
He says there “will be a tug of war, mark my words” when the Children’s Hospital comes on stream over resourcing between the Department of Health and Department of Public Expenditure, and says that Fianna Fáil will back appropriate staffing levels.
He says that Fianna Fáil has pursued Sláintecare goals - pointing to the “radical” legacy of Stephen Donnelly on women’s health - despite the fact that the ten year reform plan for the health services is not mentioned once in the party’s manifesto.
Martin says he won’t commit to a 50:50 gender split in Cabinet.
On the subject of that mammoth leaders’ debate, the person to feel sorry for is Katie Hannon, the Upfront presenter whose job it is to host this circus. “I’m looking forward to moderating the biggest ever television leaders debate on Monday night,” she said in a statement issued by RTÉ. We admire her enthusiasm, although we must say we’re skeptical about it. “We’ll be asking the questions that people want answered on their polices and promises and ensuring that voters know where every party stands on the key issues before they head to the polls on 29th November.” What a treat in store for the viewers.
Good morning all. Jack Horgan-Jones from the Irish Times political staff here, steering the live story through the first part of the day. As mentioned already, we have the big RTÉ leaders’ debate to look forward to this evening, and a slate of electioneering to get through first. As for me, I’ve never done one of these live story things before, so be gentle. Es mi dia primero.
